Just a simple question...do you believe your god is incapable of lying?
If so, what is the bound/force/mechanism/whatever that prevents this?
If so, what is the bound/force/mechanism/whatever that prevents this?
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Yes.Just a simple question...do you believe your god is incapable of lying?
Truth.If so, what is the bound/force/mechanism/whatever that prevents this?
No.No.Truth.
OUCH! Yes, indeed! Thank you for the correction! I made the appropriate change.No.
Coming from you AV, this is a surprising answer, by any chance did you misread incapable as capable?
Truth
I would make more sense of this answer were your above answer a 'yes' though I'd ask could you be more specific?...I don't use your lingo (for want of a better way of putting it)
John 14:6 said:Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
OUCH! Yes, indeed! Thank you for the correction! I made the appropriate change.
Ya --- that's what we call a "given".You are considering only the possibility that your god was telling the truth...
Okay --- God can [and apparently does] lie, and you have no problem with that. Hmmm --- I'd say that's borderline Taoism --- not basic Christianity.I on the otherhand am free to consider the proposition that your god was not telling the truth and in that case no problems arise!
To keep you from having problems?Why would your god lie?
So you can be right?why would anyone lie!?
If He is capable of lying, and yet He wrote in His Diary that He cannot lie, then we have here what I call a 404. It seems to me that you are indeed trying to reduce this to a 404 argument....Perhaps your god is pefectly capable of lying but decided that to avoid all the complicatons of you folks wondering if he could lie, and coming to the conclusion: "well if its good enough for God then its good enough for me", etc...he decided it best to state that he couldn't...perhaps he has other reasons
Let me say it again --- Truth --- [capital T].However If you hold he definitively cannot lie, then again, other than what he says is true (it remains to be demonstrated that what he says must always be true, and so to use it at this stage would be circular reasoning); what is the mechanism/obstacle that prevents this?
Never any fear hereIt is written that God is without sin.. as it is, a lie is a sin. so the easy answer is God will not lie.. Now that said, you must understand what a sin is.. A sin is anything not in the will of God.. Sin has nothing to do with evil. Evil is malicious intent to commit sin, or a malicious intent to remain outside the will of God..
So if God chose to lie it would not be a sin. So if it were to happen the laws of paradox would not cause the end of the universe like in Dogma. The Jay and silent Bob joint.. So Fear not!
Ya --- that's what we call a "given".[/color]Okay --- God can [and apparently does] lie, and you have no problem with that. Hmmm --- I'd say that's borderline Taoism --- not basic Christianity.[/color]To keep you from having problems?[/color]So you can be right?[/color]If He is capable of lying, and yet He wrote in His Diary that He cannot lie, then we have here what I call a 404.[/color] It seems to me that you are indeed trying to reduce this to a 404 argument.Let me say it again --- Truth --- [capital T].
I'm not sure that it makes much sense to say God can or cannot lie. I'm confident God does not lie, but to say "... cannot lie" is to go beyond what is meaninful to say since he doesn't have any external constraints.Just a simple question...do you believe your god is incapable of lying?
If so, what is the bound/force/mechanism/whatever that prevents this?
I wouldn't disagree with you that there should be no constraint that prevents him from lying...some however think that the statement: "god can lie" is impossible because it "violates his nature" etc...and so it would be interesting if they demonstrated why this is so without using anything that I can reduce to "god says so".I'm not sure that it makes much sense to say God can or cannot lie. I'm confident God does not lie, but to say "... cannot lie" is to go beyond what is meaninful to say since he doesn't have any external constraints.
In broadest terms there isn't much I can know about God apart from his self-revelation.I wouldn't disagree with you that there should be no constraint that prevents him from lying...some however think that the statement: "god can lie" is impossible because it "violates his nature" etc...and so it would be interesting if they demonstrated why this is so without using anything that I can reduce to "god says so".
Kind of, yes. Everything I see in Jesus of Nazareth leads me to believe he is truthful, but there is never a way of proving a negative of this sort required. In any relationship one reaches a point where one trusts the other to be genuine (or not), but one can never prove that absolutely. It's possible that my wife doesn't really love me and has simply been decieving me for the last 7 years...., but short of never trusting anyone one has to make a call at some point to trust or not trust a person to be genuine.Interesting is that you say you are confident God does not lie...wouldn't this confidence be proportional to your god's competence at telling lies, and the extent to which you trust him; such that your statement here is not surprising? (assuming he does lie of course)
In broadest terms there isn't much I can know about God apart from his self-revelation.
Kind of, yes. Everything I see in Jesus of Nazareth leads me to believe he is truthful, but there is never a way of proving a negative of this sort required. In any relationship one reaches a point where one trusts the other to be genuine (or not), but one can never prove that absolutely. It's possible that my wife doesn't really love me and has simply been decieving me for the last 7 years...., but short of never trusting anyone one has to make a call at some point to trust or not trust a person to be genuine.
I don't think God can lie. He can keep secrets though.
Technically I think God can lie, but practically He can not. God only acts in His will and his will is good so He only tells the truth. You may ask why His will is good, but I suppose it just is the way God is. Maybe there is a philosophical reason for why the creator is always good to the created because if God created the whole it would be in His judgements of good. Then again that maybe be a load of rubbish lol.
I tried to make it clear in my response that I wasn't making that assumption. Rather that I trust him to the point that I trust his claim to be always truthful. I could envisage a 'god' who was mostly truthful but sometimes not - but I can't square such an image with the God I see in Jesus of Nazareth.But see, it seems that to firmly distance yourself from this notion of your god lying you seem to suggest that "if god has lied to me once then he is always lying to me"...need the situation be so binary?
That your god has perhaps lied at least once (where he says in the Bible he cannot) does not necessarily imply he always lies!
No, but for one she doesn't make the claim to be always truthful.Similarly your wife may on at least one occasion have told you a little porky (perhaps for your own good), assuming this is true do you look upon all statements she makes with suspicion?
Technically I think God can lie, but practically He can not. God only acts in His will and his will is good so He only tells the truth.
If I read this correctly you say that there exists the potential for your god to lie (because you recognise he is supposed to be omnipotent) but think he doesn't lie (since you think he is good...and that good things can only be truthful)...But either you or your god define god to be the reference point from which goodness can be evaluated, given this criteria for goodness your god could be a compulsive liar and still be good! so I don't see why "god cannot lie" is a valid conclusion from the premise "god is good"
You may ask why His will is good, but I suppose it just is the way God is
More accurately it is the way your god has been defined to be...justified or not
I tried to make it clear in my response that I wasn't making that assumption. Rather that I trust him to the point that I trust his claim to be always truthful. I could envisage a 'god' who was mostly truthful but sometimes not - but I can't square such an image with the God I see in Jesus of Nazareth.
No, but for one she doesn't make the claim to be always truthful.
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