Can You Help Me Understand?

[GuitarHero2]

Why is there such division? I know the division in beliefs is the flaws of man. just consider that there are about 20 different congregation sand/or religious sects who can't even agree on how to worish their Lord and Savior which to me I find quite amusing lol. I know Christianity is mainly about Christ ("Christ"-anity), but there are still a quite a few things in the bible that don't make a whole lot of rational sense(I might explain more in detail about what this means later), yet again it depends on how one defines reality. I mean for example what happens if somebody never heard the "Word of God" or never had a fair chance to just because they grew up in a family that practiced paganism, Islam, Hinduism, or any other religious group. Would they still go to hell no matter how nice, or moral they are would that be fair and justified. In most religion it just seems membership is much more important than one's personality. Whos the better person the corrupt christian or the moral atheist, who deserves Heaven more, who deserves Hell more? I don't mean to get carried away , if god is all knowing(which he is supposebly) why would he create Satan, evil, etc. in the first place why would he go through all the trouble. It just baffles me, and I suppose it's something nobody could answer fully.

 

[InnocentOdion]

God didn't go through the "trouble" of making Satan. He made Satan, he made everything. Since He is all powerful, it's not something that would cause "trouble" for Him, as He is outside of time. Satan has free will, as do all of the Angels; why did He make them? To serve him and be his messengers and servants. Satan wanted things his way, not God's. It is my belief that Satan refuses to apologise, and is being, basically, rebellious and selfish, "If I can't have it, then neither can they."

It's not about who deserves Hell more; we all deserve it, and we're all punished for it. The only way you go to Hell is by not accepting God - you're walking away from God, it's not Him walking away from you - God is always there for you, waiting for you to realise His love for you. Only difference is, the Christian knows that he's a sinner and repents [or should!]. By having Christ as our Lamb, we don't have to spill the blood of an animal, because Christ's blood has been spilled for the world.

I personally believe that the dead get the chance to repent in the afterlife, but the best is for those who come to God now - so I don't believe that good moral people go to Hell for not hearing of the message. God knows our hearts, and he knows we can make mistakes. I'm an ex-Atheist by the way. I hope this helps.

 

[MethodMan]

Pardon my parsing here

Why is there such division? I know the division in beliefs is the flaws of man. just consider that there are about 20 different congregation sand/or religious sects who can't even agree on how to worish their Lord and Savior which to me I find quite amusing lol.

As funny as that sounds, you are exactly right. Due to the nature of the Word of God, Cultural and societal impact on spirituality are constant stumbling blocks to salvation. Our very nature is that of a legalistic, judgemental hedonist. It/s the Grace of God that allows us to reason our way throught that mess.

I know Christianity is mainly about Christ ("Christ"-anity), but there are still a quite a few things in the bible that don't make a whole lot of rational sense(I might explain more in detail about what this means later), yet again it depends on how one defines reality. I mean for example what happens if somebody never heard the "Word of God" or never had a fair chance to just because they grew up in a family that practiced paganism, Islam, Hinduism, or any other religious group. Would they still go to hell no matter how nice, or moral they are would that be fair and justified.

I guess I have to ask you how they are justified? By what standard. In Romans, Paul says this:

RO 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
RO 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
RO 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.


In short, If your desire is sin, god will allow you that option. That choice has its consequences

In most religion it just seems membership is much more important than one's personality. Whos the better person the corrupt christian or the moral atheist, who deserves Heaven more, who deserves Hell more?

No man deserves Heaven, all men deserve Hell. No more - no less. The difference between the Christian and the Non-Christian is the Grace of God accepted by the person. The work of Christ on the Cross brings you to the enternal Life. There is nothing you can do to earn that place.

I don't mean to get carried away , if god is all knowing(which he is supposebly) why would he create Satan, evil, etc. in the first place why would he go through all the trouble. It just baffles me, and I suppose it's something nobody could answer fully.

This truly baffles us all. The Love of God is not something easily explained. Undersatnding the Depth of His love becomes easier once you start down the path to Him.

 

[GuitarHero2]

So why exactly do all men deserve hell?

 

[GuitarHero2]

Pardon my parsing here

I guess I have to ask you how they are justified? By what standard. In Romans, Paul says this:

RO 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
RO 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
RO 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.


In short, If your desire is sin, god will allow you that option. That choice has its consequences

Can you explain what you mean by that. I notice that you quoted the section where I asked if somebody who has never heard the word of your "God" before is automatically damned. So are you pretty much saying that they are damned because they aren't part of your religion or view life the same way you do. Can you kinda interpret that for me. Because that doesn't sound real fair or loving to me.

 

[Calminian]

Hi GitarHero. There's quite a few questions here.

Why is there such division? I know the division in beliefs is the flaws of man. just consider that there are about 20 different congregation sand/or religious sects who can't even agree on how to worish their Lord and Savior which to me I find quite amusing lol.

While there are divisions in many areas, there is still amazing unity within christianity. All true christian denominations agree on the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, salvation through faith, and not by works, and all other essential doctrines. But the Bible is a very complex book also, so there are going to be divisions on matters of lesser importance. Paul explained in Romans 14 that this was actually okay and gave us guidelines on how to handle those disagreements. But over all, denominationalism is a good thing for the church. It proves that while christians are free to disagree, they still show remarkable unity on the essentials. Many in history thoght freedom would have the opposite result.

I know Christianity is mainly about Christ ("Christ"-anity), but there are still a quite a few things in the bible that don't make a whole lot of rational sense(I might explain more in detail about what this means later), yet again it depends on how one defines reality. I mean for example what happens if somebody never heard the "Word of God" or never had a fair chance to just because they grew up in a family that practiced paganism, Islam, Hinduism, or any other religious group. Would they still go to hell no matter how nice, or moral they are would that be fair and justified.

A good person will never go to hell, but the problem is, there are no good persons, except one, Jesus Christ. Through Him, all have access to heaven. God will not allow anyone to perish without a witness. He is the only true evangelist. He will reach down to men wherever they are and speak to their hearts. If they respond, He will bring more light. There are some very interesting stories of missionaries having pagans come up to them stating "we were expecting you." God doesn't need us, He merely chooses to use us. Evangelism is much more than just men sharing their faith. God is involved in every aspect of it, and men in very few aspects of it.

In most religion it just seems membership is much more important than one's personality. Whos the better person the corrupt christian or the moral atheist, who deserves Heaven more, who deserves Hell more? I don't mean to get carried away , if god is all knowing(which he is supposebly) why would he create Satan, evil, etc. in the first place why would he go through all the trouble. It just baffles me, and I suppose it's something nobody could answer fully.

God did not create the Devil, Lucifer did. Lucifer was part of God's good creation, but God gave to him libertarian freewill. Lucifer chose to rebel and became the Devil. God knew it would happen but deemed freedom as more important than preventing all evil. I also agree freedom is better than creating good robots.

And church membership is not the main issue of christianity. It’s all about trusting in Christ.

Hope that answers them.

 

[InnocentOdion]

So why exactly do all men deserve hell?

Because we all do stupid things, we all do things we wish we hadn't, we all sin. Lying, cheating, stealing, dishonouring our father and mother, we've all broken at least one of the ten commandments, and we've all done things against God. All of us except Christ. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

 

[MethodMan]

So why exactly do all men deserve hell?

A very good question. It is only the righteous (without sin and sin nature) that can be in heaven. This Holiness is by God's standard. Not ours. The event was depicted in Genesis 3 as the Fall of Man. The rebelion that began there has been a yoke for us all.

 

[GuitarHero2]

A good person will never go to hell, but the problem is, there are no good persons, except one, Jesus Christ. Through Him, all have access to heaven.

Well no offense I think their is a huge difference between a sadistic serial killer, who kill for pleasure and a social worker that sacrifices his/her time for the the better of mankind lol. So I do believe there are good people and bad people, and the title of good shouldn't only be used for your savior.

 

[MethodMan]

Well no offense I think their is a huge difference between a sadistic serial killer, who kill for pleasure and a social worker that sacrifices his/her time for the the better of mankind lol. So I do believe there are good people and bad people, and the title of good shouldn't only be used for your savior.

But do you have "Good" by God's standard? Or are you marignalizing the sin of one with the "More evil" persona of another?

 

[GuitarHero2]

But do you have "Good" by God's standard? Or are you marignalizing the sin of one with the "More evil" persona of another?

Well than what is good by your "God's" questionable standards.

 

[MethodMan]

Well than what is good by your "God's" questionable standards.

Jesus answered that very question:

Mark 10:17

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
MK 10:18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

 

[GuitarHero2]

Jesus answered that very question:

Mark 10:17

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
MK 10:18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

Isn't Jesus technically a part of God, (The Holy Trinity)

 

[MethodMan]

Isn't Jesus technically a part of God, (The Holy Trinity)

Yes.

 

[GuitarHero2]

Jesus answered that very question:

Mark 10:17

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
MK 10:18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

Than being that Jesus is technically God, he plainly just contradicted himself lol

 

[dvd_holc]

I hope to cut through the chase. First, later...this is generally written with the former then later. Former mean the first or before, then later meaning the second or after.

Ok, the things that are can't fully be identified and explained. This does not mean that we can't spend a lot of time getting to know and knowing the universe, planets, the environment, humans, cells, atoms, quarks, and so on...what it means is that we all have a inability to understand all things because we have limitations. But we gain knowledge by the inspiration of the truth. When it comes to salvation of the after life, we all gain insight though the same source, God (who is the inspiration of the present truth). No one ever is a person to himself because come from a history of people and environment and we do effects the future of people. Each of us in not in a vacuum of silence, but we are differently in blinder of ideas. God is still able to freeze through the blinding of ideas to inspire people to His truth. Now, each of us suffer a brokenness in our relationship with God, each other, and the environment in which we inherited and which we prevaricate in our own lives. Because of this, we all are deserving of eternal brokenness of Hell, but God has taken upon Himself as the Creator of all of it to still continue to mend the brokenness by restoring us to our original harmony with God, each other, and the environment. Those who are justified to gain this salvation are the ones who presently work toward accepting brokenness for life. Rather they pursue the things which make for peace, love, and furthered relationship. I wish with all of my being that all people who claim to be Christians to work toward ending our divisions. But that is the thing about us we don’t always pursue it…but God handles it by giving grace because we aren’t perfect but through grace God works toward perfecting (to complete) us. We all have care with us the knowledge of goodness and evil, of justice and in-justice, of freedom and oppression. But we all struggle to develop into a comprehend which to choose and do.

 

[Calminian]

Well no offense I think their is a huge difference between a sadistic serial killer, who kill for pleasure and a social worker that sacrifices his/her time for the the better of mankind lol. So I do believe there are good people and bad people, and the title of good shouldn't only be used for your savior.

It's obvious you don't truth Christ is a good man, but you asked for understanding from a Christian perspective. No offense taken. Social workers are sinners just like everyone else and need forgiveness. Many of them are humble and realize this for themselves. It’s very rare you’ll find a human being that will not admit to being a sinner.

 

[MethodMan]

Than being that Jesus is technically God, he plainly just contradicted himself lol

Not really. The context of the situation says differently. The person asking the question was a man talking to another man. Christ's Divinity had not yet been revealed.

 

[GuitarHero2]

Not really. The context of the situation says differently. The person asking the question was a man talking to another man. Christ's Divinity had not yet been revealed.

Well okay if you say so, I'll admit I'm no bible scholar

 

[GuitarHero2]

It's obvious you don't truth Christ is a good man, but you asked for understanding from a Christian perspective. No offense taken. Social workers are sinners just like everyone else and need forgiveness. Many of them are humble and realize this for themselves. It’s very rare you’ll find a human being that will not admit to being a sinner.

I never said that human being are perfect or anything like that I just feel that the term good shouldn't be used for exclusively one person. I feel that both people do good and bad things, but their is a difference from a person who is mainly good to one who is thus opposite. How you view good and evil, right and wrong depends on who you are as a person I suppose. I understand that Christians view Christ as the meaning of good and key to paradise.