Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

[Job 33:6]

Ane myth is not history.

Not arguing with you because there is no point. It changes nothing as far as evolution is concerned. If we were debating whether Adam and George are the same person, then yes, your assertion would change things. But that’s not what we are debating.

The Bible says what it says.

‭Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Is the earth already there when God began creating, or not?

All I did was quote the Bible and you seem to be calling the quote an ANE myth.

 

[olgamc]

The Bible says what it says.

‭Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Is the earth already there when God began creating, or not?

Your translation can be interpreted either way. We can argue that another time. It does not change the fact that at some point God had to create everything, including humans in His image.

 

[Job 33:6]

Your translation can be interpreted either way. We can argue that another time. It does not change the fact that at some point God had to create everything, including humans in His image.

Ok. So we can back up again. You said that to understand the meaning of bara, we should look at it in the context of Genesis. Now you're looking at Genesis and the question of if earth was already there or not, and your conclusion is that it "can be interpreted either way".

Got it.

 

[olgamc]

Oh

Ok. So we can back up again. You said that to understand the meaning of bara, we should look at it in the context of Genesis. Now you're looking at Genesis and the question of if earth was already there or not, and your conclusion is that it "can be interpreted either way".

Got it.

oh I see, you are a few of my posts behind. Ok, sorry, I didn’t realize. Yes, ok, let’s look at bara.

Bereshit Elohim bara the heavens and the earth.

Bereshit means beginning or first. So

“In the beginning God bara the heavens and the earth” or “First God bara…”

Sure sounds like it did not exist.

 

[Job 33:6]

Your translation can be interpreted either way. We can argue that another time. It does not change the fact that at some point God had to create everything, including humans in His image.

I'll go a step further.

What is the first thing that happens on each day of creation in Genesis?

"And God said".

Day 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6.

‭Genesis 1:3, 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24 ESV‬

Day 1:
[3] And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Day 2:
[6] And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

Day 3:
‭Genesis 1:9 ESV‬
[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.

Day 4:
[14] And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

Day 5:
[20] And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”

Day 6:
[24] And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.

Every creation day begins with "And God said". That's how He makes things. He just speaks.

But notice that day 1 doesn't begin until verse 3.

That's after the earth is already described as present but without form.

 

[Job 33:6]

Oh

oh I see, you are a few of my posts behind. Ok, sorry, I didn’t realize. Yes, ok, let’s look at bara.

Bereshit Elohim bara the heavens and the earth.

Bereshit means beginning or first. So

“In the beginning God bara the heavens and the earth” or “First God bara…”

Sure sounds like it did not exist.

Nope. Bereshit has no definite article. That's an assumption on your part.

 

[Job 33:6]

Nope. Bereshit has no definite article. That's an assumption on your part.

‭‭Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

It's already there.

 

[olgamc]

Nope. Bereshit has no definite article. That's an assumption on your part.

I am just looking at Strongs. Lol

May I ask, are you an expert in ancient Hebrew?

 

[Job 33:6]

I am just looking at Strongs. Lol

May I ask, are you an expert in ancient Hebrew?

I'm giving you my sources. It's the same sources that for whatever reason you decide not to watch.

This video looks long but it's the very first topic covered by this Hebrew scholar.

 

[Job 33:6]

I'm giving you my sources. It's the same sources that for whatever reason you decide not to watch.

This video looks long but it's the very first topic covered by this Hebrew scholar.

I am 110% confident that that store is already there.

 

[olgamc]

‭‭Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE‬
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

It's already there.

The word “when” is an assumption.

“Beginning God bara…”

Ok, now what

I'll go a step further.

What is the first thing that happens on each day of creation in Genesis?

"And God said".

Day 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6.

‭Genesis 1:3, 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24 ESV‬

Day 1:
[3] And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Day 2:
[6] And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

Day 3:
‭Genesis 1:9 ESV‬
[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.

Day 4:
[14] And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

Day 5:
[20] And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”

Day 6:
[24] And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.

Every creation day begins with "And God said". That's how He makes things. He just speaks.

But notice that day 1 doesn't begin until verse 3.

That's after the earth is already described as present but without form.

ok ok, I follow. So verse 1 God creates matter in the Big Bang. Verse 2 God creates light - big bang explodes.

I'm giving you my sources. It's the same sources that for whatever reason you decide not to watch.

This video looks long but it's the very first topic covered by this Hebrew scholar.

Ah, so you are just choosing a scholar. While not allowing me to choose one? I choose the one on quora. Creation videos are done by scholars too. I can send you videos on genesis by an Old Testament and ancient Hebrew scholar that goes completely against your scholar. Now what?

 

[olgamc]

I am 110% confident that that store is already there.

Ok, let it be there. What does it change?

 

[Job 33:6]

Ok, let it be there. What does it change?

It's just one more thing that's already there. It's not about material origins, because the material is already there, Earth is already there.

 

[Job 33:6]

It's just one more thing that's already there. It's not about material origins, because the material is already there, Earth is already there.

The story is about God creating the heavens and the earth, but we see that the heavens and earth, or in this case the Earth in particular, it's already there before God even does anything.

 

[olgamc]

The story is about God creating the heavens and the earth, but we see that the heavens and earth, or in this case the Earth in particular, it's already there before God even does anything.

Are you even listening to me? I am not going to argue that. I can allow, for this conversation, the idea that Heaven and earth were created pre-genesis. What does that change in terms of evolution?

 

[Job 33:6]

Are you even listening to me? I am not going to argue that. I can allow, for this conversation, the idea that Heaven and earth were created pre-genesis. What does that change in terms of evolution?

It is further evidence that bara is not a term that in Genesis, indicates material origins.

You seemed to be bothered by the idea that the store might already be there, but indeed, in Genesis, the store was already there. So God went to the store, made His cake a birthday cake, and began His party while resting on His throne on the 7th day.

 

[Job 33:6]

It is further evidence that bara is not a term that in Genesis, indicates material origins.

You seemed to be bothered by the idea that the store might already be there, but indeed, in Genesis, the store was already there. So God went to the store, made His cake a birthday cake, and began His party while resting on His throne on the 7th day.

Face it, if the story is about God creating the heavens and the earth, but in actuality the earth was already there before God even began creating it, then there's an obvious conclusion that follows. Bara is not about material origins. Because as you've noted, "Heaven and earth were created pre-genesis".

So, God baras other things too. And those too are not about material origins. They're already there.

 

[olgamc]

Face it, if the story is about God creating the heavens and the earth, but in actuality the earth was already there before God even began creating it, then there's an obvious conclusion that follows. Bara is not about material origins. Because as you've noted, "Heaven and earth were created pre-genesis".

You misquoted me.

So, God baras other things too. And those too are not about material origins. They're already there.

I am not going to argue about bara for the time being. Not because you are right, but because it doesn't matter for this conversation.

 

[Job 33:6]

You misquoted me.

I am not going to argue about bara for the time being. Not because you are right, but because it doesn't matter for this conversation.

If you read the text closely, you'll see that God never actually manufactures anything. There's nothing there about material or biological or scientific origins. It's just not there.

When God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was already there. So "to make", it has to mean something else.

So on day 6 when God makes humanity...

Follow the logic.

 

[olgamc]

If you read the text closely, you'll see that God never actually manufactures anything. There's nothing there about material or biological or scientific origins. It's just not there.

When God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was already there. So "to make", it has to mean something else.

So on day 6 when God makes humanity...

Follow the logic.

I disagree, but ok, I am following your logic. On day 6 people are already there. What does that change in terms of evolution?