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No. You can choose her. Whoever marries you makes her your spouse.You can make a person your spouse.
You can make it a gift, right. It was just a random cake and you made it a gift.Or, think of it this way, I can have a collection of cakes, and I can pick out one of those cakes and can make it for someone's birthday. Right.
Correct. But you can’t select something that doesn’t exist.Selection, to make the cake for something, doesn't require that I actually do any baking beforehand.
Did I say that Bible spells out how God manufactured our bodies?You're leaving scripture again. The Bible doesn't say how God manufactured our material bodies.
RightJust like if I pick out a cake from the store and make that cake for someone's birthday, doesn't mean I actually baked it.
RightOr if I went to the toy store and I looked at a teddy bear on a shelf and said "I'm going to make you a gift for my niece".
SureYou can make things without material manufacturing.
Made in God’s imageAnd whatever that qualification is, the Bible doesn't say clarify on it.
Both verses exist. Both say make, produce, fashion, create. Neither says choose.We've already covered this. Bara is to make or to do, it is used interchangeably with Asah. Trying to act like verse 26 doesn't exist is not productive to the discussion.
Lol.Again, stop ignoring the Bible.
bara': choose
Strong's Concordance ”Yatsar” (יצר) means “He fashioned” or “He formed,” and describes the elaboration of one thing from another. Man, too, is capable of fashioning, and this verb is used with either the Eternal or a human being as its subject in Hebrew.bara': choose Original Word: בָּרָא Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: bara' Phonetic Spelling: (baw-raw') Definition: to shape, create reference ”Bara” (ברא) means “He created,” and designates the initial act of creation, the creation of a completely new concept from nothing, without any antecedent cause other than the Eternal Himself or Itself (before the creation of anything else, the Eternal had to elaborate a zone of non-existence or “nothingness” where His previously omnipresent light would be totally concealed). This verb is used with the Eternal alone as its subject. No one and nothing else “creates” in the Hebrew Bible or in the Hebrew language. “‘Asah” (עשה) means “He made” or “He did,” and often but not always describes the finishing of a thing into its final form or state of operation. Man is certainly capable of making or doing, and this verb, too, is used both with the Eternal and with man as its subject in Hebrew. These three verbs appear in sequence in a famous verse from Isaiah, Isaiah 43:7: “כל הנקרא בשמי ולכבודי, בראתיו, יצרתיו, אף עשיתיו” (“Every one that is called by My name, and for My glory, I have created him, I have fashioned him, I have even made him.”) |
Psalm 89:12 - CreatedPsalm 89, God bara north and south.
“The creator”Isaiah 43:15, God bara Isreal.
Created, formed and madeIsaiah 43:7, God bara the seed of Isreal
I the Lord have created itIsaiah 45:8, God bara righteousness
CreatesPsalm 51:12, God baras a clean heart in the psalmist
Alright. Deal. Let’s stop this conversation.Etc. I'm not going to sit here and lay it all out again. The terms are used interchangeably and even bara is consistently used for not material things.
Sorry to break it to you, but the ancient near east context doesn't care what some random person on quora thinks.
bara': choose
Original Word: בָּרָא
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: bara'
Phonetic Spelling: (baw-raw')
Definition: to shape, create
reference
”Bara” (ברא) means “He created,” and designates the initial act of creation, the creation of a completely new concept from nothing, without any antecedent cause other than the Eternal Himself or Itself (before the creation of anything else, the Eternal had to elaborate a zone of non-existence or “nothingness” where His previously omnipresent light would be totally concealed). This verb is used with the Eternal alone as its subject. No one and nothing else “creates” in the Hebrew Bible or in the Hebrew language.
“‘Asah” (עשה) means “He made” or “He did,” and often but not always describes the finishing of a thing into its final form or state of operation. Man is certainly capable of making or doing, and this verb, too, is used both with the Eternal and with man as its subject in Hebrew.
These three verbs appear in sequence in a famous verse from Isaiah, Isaiah 43:7: “כל הנקרא בשמי ולכבודי, בראתיו, יצרתיו, אף עשיתיו” (“Every one that is called by My name, and for My glory, I have created him, I have fashioned him, I have even made him.”)
Psalm 89:12 - Created
“The creator”
Created, formed and made
I the Lord have created it
Creates
Alright. Deal. Let’s stop this conversation.
Ah, so it is creation after all? Or is it still choosing?Sorry to break it to you, but the ancient near east context doesn't care what some random person on quora thinks.
Bible scholars and also Bible translations attest to the incorrectness of what you just shared.
Genesis 1:1-2 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.
It's not creation from nothing. It's creation of material that's already there.
It's always been creation. Just like someone creates or makes a football team. Or like when someone goes to the store and grabs a cake off the shelf and makes it a birthday cake. Or when a man makes a woman his spouse (or when a woman makes a man her husband). Or when someone grabs a spoon and makes it a spoon for mixing pudding rather than a spoon for scooping ice cream.Ah, so it is creation after all? Or is it still choosing?
It’s ok man. You have the right to go ahead and read the Bible like it’s a myth and assign meanings to words as you please. I have the right to disagree. Our conversation is over.
When did I say that Bible is a science textbook? Please find an actual quote before you attribute those words to me.It's always been creation. Just like someone creates or makes a football team. Or like when someone goes to the store and grabs a cake off the shelf and makes it a birthday cake. Or when a man makes a woman his spouse (or when a woman makes a man her husband). Or when someone grabs a spoon and makes it a spoon for mixing pudding rather than a spoon for scooping ice cream.
And so I made the spoon for mixing pudding.
That's what it is.
When in high No name was given to heaven, nor below was the Netherworld called by name...
When no gods at all had been brought forth,
None called by names, none destinies ordained.
-Enuma Elish
Well tended is mankind - God's cattle,
He made the sky and Earth for their sake,
He subdues the water monster,
He made breath for their noses to live,
They are his images, who come from his body,
He shines in the sky for their sake;
He made for them plants and cattle,
Fell and fish to feed them...
He makes daylight for their sake,
He sells by to see them.
He has built his shrine around them,
When they weep he hears.
- Instruction of Merikare
It's not about how God builds a house. It's about God making a home.
It's not about how God biologically manufactured people's origins. It's about how God has a relationship with us.
It's not a science textbook.
You're free to disagree. But at the end of the day, people can be Christian and accept evolution.
Already answered this. The question is not if God biologically manufactured people. The question is, what does Genesis actually describe?When did I say that Bible is a science textbook? Please find an actual quote before you attribute those words to me.
If God created mankind out of (individuals?) that already existed, then who created the individuals?
So we can agree to disagree and we can both still be saved.
I disagree. Genesis is very much about origins. But it’s not a science book. It’s a history book.Already answered this. The question is not if God biologically manufactured people. The question is, what does Genesis actually describe?
Ive baked cakes before. But if my story was about specially selecting one of my cakes, or making one of my pre-baked cakes for my child's birthday, you wouldn't get upset at the birthday party if I didn't tell you about all the ingredients and bake-time and stores that I bought the eggs from.
Making a cake for a birthday, is a more important story than materialistically manufacturing the cake.
At a birthday party, people aren't going to get upset if you don't tell them about how the toys were manufactured in China. Right? What factory, what type of plastic, what the brand is of the batteries inside etc. Because that's not what's important in the story. Your 5 year old kid isn't going to break down crying if you don't show him pictures of the manufacturing factory and the conveyor belt of toys.
It's a celebration about God coming into communion with mankind. It's not about science. It's about relationship and purpose. It's not about biological origins.
The Bible has literally 0 scientific language in it. It's not about biological origins.
It's not about biological origins. Says nothing about it. It doesn't even have a single verse about DNA.I disagree. Genesis is very much about origins. But it’s not a science book. It’s a history book.
”Now Adam had sexual relations with his wife, Eve, and she became pregnant. When she gave birth to Cain, she said, “With the Lord’s help, I have produced a man!”“It's not about biological origins. Says nothing about it. It doesn't even have a single verse about DNA.
And what does that verse have to do with evolution? Does it say anything about the biological origins of mankind? No.”Now Adam had sexual relations with his wife, Eve, and she became pregnant. When she gave birth to Cain, she said, “With the Lord’s help, I have produced a man!”“
Genesis 4:1 NLT
Not biological? Ok, whatever you like.
It has to do with your claim that there is nothing biological in Genesis. Yes, there is. Chapter 4 is about biological humans. You can trace God’s making of Israel biologically through the genealogies. There is no concept of Israel being a spiritual nation until the New Testament. Though there is of course a way to be “adopted” into Israel in the OT. But for the most part, OT deals with a very biological process by which God creates the nation of Israel - so and so begot so and so, and he begot the next one, and the next one begot the next one, and then Jacob was renamed to Israel and then Israel (still the same person Jacob) had sons and his sons had sons etc.And what does that verse have to do with evolution? Does it say anything about the biological origins of mankind? No.
Well, the obvious context here is with respect to evolution and biological origins of humanity. There are animals mentioned in Genesis 1 too, which are studied in zoology. But obviously that's not the context the conversation.It has to do with your claim that there is nothing biological in Genesis. Yes, there is.
So to go then and say that oh yeah, the rest of Genesis is historical and biological, but chapter 1 is a myth. Ok, like I said, you are entitled to an opinion.
Genesis 1 talks about God physically creating mankind. You choose to ignore that, and that’s ok, it doesn’t change the words in Genesis 1. Genesis 2 confirms that Genesis 1 has to do with physical creation, because Genesis 2 talks about fashioning the body of the first man. You choose to ignore that too, but just because you ignore it doesn’t make the words go away. Bible does not talk about evolution, Bible is history. Science talks about evolution. Bible and biology both talk about the physical creation of life including humans. Person 1 draws a circle. Person 2 draws a square. Who is right? Who is wrong?Well, the obvious context here is with respect to evolution and biological origins of humanity. There are animals mentioned in Genesis 1 too, which are studied in zoology. But obviously that's not the context the conversation.
Again, Genesis doesn't say anything with respect to biological origins, pertaining to evolution or the origins of humanity.
As we've already discussed. Bara and Asah are routinely used in non-physical ways. When the Psalmist asks God to create (bara) a clean heart in him, he's not asking God to create a physically new heart.Genesis 1 talks about God physically creating mankind.
If you want to compare the book of Psalms (poetry written by David for the purpose of worship), with Genesis 1 (historic event, written by Moses for the purpose of educating Israelites about their origins) and ignore the rest of Genesis (same book, same author, same purpose) - well, ok, whatever you like. I think it makes more sense to compare apples to apples, personally.As we've already discussed. Bara and Asah are routinely used in non-physical ways. When the Psalmist asks God to create (bara) a clean heart in him, he's not asking God to create a physically new heart.
I've cited a lot more than Psalms. Would you like me to copy and paste my prior posts again on bara and Asah?If you want to compare the book of Psalms (poetry written by David for the purpose of worship), with Genesis 1 (historic event, written by Moses for the purpose of educating Israelites about their origins) and ignore the rest of Genesis (same book, same author, same purpose) - well, ok, whatever you like. I think it makes more sense to compare apples to apples, personally.
Hey question - does the psalmist ask God to take his sinful heart and pronounce it clean? Or is he asking for a transformative process?
Person 1 draws a circle. Person 2 draws a square. Who is right and who is wrong?
If you want to compare the book of Psalms (poetry written by David for the purpose of worship), with Genesis 1 (historic event, written by Moses for the purpose of educating Israelites about their origins) and ignore the rest of Genesis (same book, same author, same purpose) - well, ok, whatever you like. I think it makes more sense to compare apples to apples, personally.
Hey question - does the psalmist ask God to take his sinful heart and pronounce it clean? Or is he asking for a transformative process?
Person 1 draws a circle. Person 2 draws a square. Who is right and who is wrong?
If you don't have the original object, you probably wouldn't know.Person 1 draws a circle. Person 2 draws a square. Who is right and who is wrong?
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