Can You At Least Admit that The Act is Wrong?

[TheFathersDaughter]

No way they'll confess it as sin. Even when they stand before Jesus they will not be confessing it as sin. I think they all agree with that, because they don't believe it is sin.

We know they have not repented. Some gays on this forum will tell you point blank that repentance is not necessary for salvation.

At least we all agree on something -- gays will not be confessing their lifestyle as sin before Jesus, not in this world, or in the world to come.

[9] To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: [10] "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [11] The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men -- robbers, evildoers, adulterers -- or even like this tax collector. [12] I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
[13] "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
[14] "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Luke 18:9-14.

 

[MercyBurst]

Luke 18:9-14.

Phraisees didn't repent, and neither will gays. Yep, I see exactly what you mean. Excellent post, excellent excellent. I couldn't have said it better.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Phraisees didn't repent, and neither will gays. Yep, I see exactly what you mean. Excellent post, excellent excellent. I couldn't have said it better.

Who ever said Pharisees didn't repent?

Such roundabout arguing, accusations and sarcasm are very disrespectful. If you could argue in a civil manner, I wouldn't have to be so blunt. But you give me no choice. KNOCK OF THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS ATTITUDE.

 

[MrPirate]

Nope.

Yet you somehow think such an absence it justifies prejudice and discrimination in a different minority.

 

[MrPirate]

The bible is clear to everyone except those that want to justify their own sin.

You would be speaking of the sin of prejudice and your desire to justify it…correct?

As if bible scholars singled out gays concerning sin, and nobody else.

Hmmm…I don’t see Christians posting lies about people who are overweight on these forums…nothing about how the prideful are secretly infiltrating schools to recruit children.

Oh I see, it's not a moral issue but a political one *wink *wink "pro-discrimination group" * cute little label * wink*

Well I originally I wrote a more correct but less polite phrase

Minority of which you are a member *wink *wink *hint *hint . Nice use of the hot-word "always." Goes well with words like "never", "idiot", "only"

I am certain you have no clue as to what if any minority I belong to.

I oppose racism as well…do you think that makes me black?

Anybody ever seen a "gay-affirming" translation of the bible? I know what -- it must be a conspiracy. Yeah that must be it.

Hate usually is

ok so now it's the ole culture renders the bible obsolete argument. *wink*

So you support slavery, racism, animal sacrifice and the use of rape to force marriage on a woman?

But the souls from sodom, gomorrah and neighboring towns are burning in hell today as an eternal example of what? (not that we expect an honest answer from you).

" 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.” Ezk 16:49

Most of the blacks in church don't side with you.

are you black?

non sequitor -- race is not a moral issue, and gay is not a racial issue, though gays desperately plead that point as the Gay Titantic continues sink.

tootles

Prejudice is always a moral issue.

 

[MercyBurst]

Who ever said Pharisees didn't repent?

Jesus said the pharisees didn't repent. That was the point of the story.

Such roundabout arguing, accusations and sarcasm are very disrespectful.

Please be a little more specific. If you can't express what you really mean then it's better to leave it alone. Don't expect someone to "read between the lines" otherwise this is what happens.

If you could argue in a civil manner, I wouldn't have to be so blunt.

I think you were actually rather rude to start with. Why don't you just go ahead and tell everyone that you don't believe gays need to repent. Be honest... please...

But you give me no choice. KNOCK OF THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS ATTITUDE.

Likewise will you please knock off the GAY ATTITUDE. We can do without that kind of bitterness.

Just be honest and open, as I have been. I honestly do not believe that gays who defend homosexuality have ever repented. That's what I mean by being honest. So go ahead and get bitter, call me names, tell me how rude I am, blame me for all the world's problems if you want to. You will never change what I believe.

 

[MercyBurst]

I don't believe most gays on this forum will ever repent. Not in this world or in the world to come. I'm just being honest about what I believe.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Jesus said the pharisees didn't repent. That was the point of the story.



Please be a little more specific. If you can't express what you really mean then it's better to leave it alone. Don't expect someone to "read between the lines" otherwise this is what happens.



I think you were actually rather rude to start with. Why don't you just go ahead and tell everyone that you don't believe gays need to repent. Be honest... please...



Likewise will you please knock off the GAY ATTITUDE. We can do without that kind of bitterness.

Just be honest and open, as I have been. I honestly do not believe that gays who defend homosexuality have ever repented. That's what I mean by being honest. So go ahead and get bitter, call me names, tell me how rude I am, blame me for all the world's problems if you want to. You will never change what I believe.

The story wasn't about who repented and who didn't. The story was about who was humble and who wasn't. Being gay doesn't prevent someone from being humble. However BASHING gays can very easily, as is perfectly clear, keep someone from being humble.

Being honest is stating personal opinion. You are not being honest, but making a very VERY broad assumption. It's not only distasteful, it's also very disrespectful. You can't say "I believe no homosexuals have ever repented". You might be able to say "I believe if you're homosexual, it's more difficult to repent". That's different. That's not an assumption and while people will disagree with you, only a fool would be offended by it.

I believe ALL people need to repent MercyBurst, including me and including you. That was the point of the verse. You can not honestly say homosexuals can not repent. You can not honestly say homosexuals are wicked, sinful or that any sort of agenda is wicked or sinful. You can only say homosexuals need God, as do all people. The day you become equal to God is the day you'll be justified in that sort of judgment.

And before you decide your only argument is to try to accuse me of hypocrisy, I include myself always. All this applies to me as well and while I am probably wrong in this sort of judgment, I've had quite enough of your self-righteous attitude.

 

[MercyBurst]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MercyBurst

The bible is clear to everyone except those that want to justify their own sin.

P:
You would be speaking of the sin of prejudice and your desire to justify it…correct?


MB:
I don't like it when you say homosexuality is righteous. That's my issue.

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Quote:
As if bible scholars singled out gays concerning sin, and nobody else.

P:
Hmmm…I don’t see Christians posting lies about people who are overweight on these forums…nothing about how the prideful are secretly infiltrating schools to recruit children.


MB:

That has nothing to do with people that justify immorality.

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Quote:
Oh I see, it's not a moral issue but a political one *wink *wink "pro-discrimination group" * cute little label * wink*


P:
Well I originally I wrote a more correct but less polite phrase

MB:

You can call it all the political labels you want to. My issue with it is a moral one.

-------------------------------------------------


Quote:
Minority of which you are a member *wink *wink *hint *hint . Nice use of the hot-word "always." Goes well with words like "never", "idiot", "only"

P:
I am certain you have no clue as to what if any minority I belong to.


MB:

I recall we have covered this before. Biblically, the issue I have is your preaching.

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Quote:
Anybody ever seen a "gay-affirming" translation of the bible? I know what -- it must be a conspiracy. Yeah that must be it.

P:
Hate usually is


MB:

Usually what. Could you speak in plain english instead of gibberish. I'm not up on gay jive.


---------------------------------
Quote:
ok so now it's the ole culture renders the bible obsolete argument. *wink*

P:
So you support slavery, racism, animal sacrifice and the use of rape to force marriage on a woman?

MB:
I support everything the bible says.


-------------------------------------------

Quote:
But the souls from sodom, gomorrah and neighboring towns are burning in hell today as an eternal example of what? (not that we expect an honest answer from you).


P;
" 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.” Ezk 16:49

MB:

you left out verse Ez 16:50

They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

The hebrew word is tow e'bah, and it's the same word used to describe the male on male sex in Lev 20:13, which was punishable by death under the law.

6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home–these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

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Quote:
Most of the blacks in church don't side with you.

P:
are you black?


MB:
DL Foster is black. Why don't you read what he has to say about your false analogy that steals from the black civil rights cause.

----------------------------------------------


Quote:
non sequitor -- race is not a moral issue, and gay is not a racial issue, though gays desperately plead that point as the Gay Titantic continues sink.

tootles

P:
Prejudice is always a moral issue
.
MB: God was always prejudiced against sin. God made up His mind about sin a long time ago. Jesus died on a cross to judge all sin past, present, and future. Hence the Lord's sacrifice "pre judged" the sins we commit today -- these are the root words for "prejudice." He died on a cross for sinners, but He will judge sin when it is not covered by the blood of Christ.

 

[MercyBurst]

The story wasn't about who repented and who didn't.

I'm sorry but it is.

The story was about who was humble and who wasn't.

The humble man repented, but the prideful man did not.

Being honest is stating personal opinion. You are not being honest, but making a very VERY broad assumption.

Specifics please....

It's not only distasteful, it's also very disrespectful.

Specifics please.

You can't say "I believe no homosexuals have ever repented".

I didn't say that. You weren't listening.

You might be able to say "I believe if you're homosexual, it's more difficult to repent". That's different.

That's not what I believe.

That's not an assumption and while people will disagree with you, only a fool would be offended by it.

I sorry my true belief offends you, but "gay christianity" offends me as well.

I believe ALL people need to repent MercyBurst, including me and including you.

I repented when I was saved.

That was the point of the verse. You can not honestly say homosexuals can not repent.

I did not say that. stop the straw man please.... you are being rude....

You can not honestly say homosexuals are wicked, sinful or that any sort of agenda is wicked or sinful.

I believe it is.

You can only say homosexuals need God, as do all people.

I agree that all people need God, and they receive God through repentence.

The day you become equal to God is the day you'll be justified in that sort of judgment.

That's the way you see it, merely because I speak what I believe, and my belief offends you. Likewise your belief offends me.

And before you decide your only argument is to try to accuse me of hypocrisy, I include myself always.

you and your straw men.....

All this applies to me as well and while I am probably wrong in this sort of judgment, I've had quite enough of your self-righteous attitude.

I state my beliefs. I believe homosexuality will take many many people to a burning hell because they wanted their lust more than they wanted Jesus. I'm sorrry that offends you, but that is what I honestly believe.

To you I'm being "self-righteous" whereas I feel I'm speaking out on an issue that is incompatible with what I believe. I'm sorry, but I can't sugar coat hell for you. I would be lying if I did that.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

I'm sorry but it is.



The humble man repented, but the prideful man did not.



Specifics please....




Specifics please.



I didn't say that. You weren't listening.



That's not what I believe.



I sorry my true belief offends you, but "gay christianity" offends me as well.




I repented when I was saved.



I did not say that. stop the straw man please.... you are being rude....




I believe it is.




I agree that all people need God, and they receive God through repentence.




That's the way you see it, merely because I speak what I believe, and my belief offends you. Likewise your belief offends me.




you and your straw men.....




I state my beliefs. I believe homosexuality will take many many people to a burning hell because they wanted their lust more than they wanted Jesus. I'm sorry that offends you, but that is what I honestly believe.

To you I'm being "self-righteous" whereas I feel I'm speaking out on an issue that is incompatible with what I believe. I'm sorry, but I can't sugar coat hell for you. I would be lying if I did that.

You are speaking out when you say "I believe homosexuality is a sin". Fine. When you cross the line and begin making attacks to those who disagree and claiming homosexual men don't or can't repent and are destined for hell, you're crossing the line. You can not believe that someone IS something. You either have to know or you don't. Because believing someone is something is exactly how false stereotypes are started.

I'm quite sure I could assume you value your own ego of Christ as well. But I won't. Likewise, YOU can't assume all homosexuals value lust over Christ. Because I know for a fact this isn't true. And it's that negative stereotype that drives many homosexuals into depression because they can't seem to escape no matter who they run too.

I suggest you start learning what repentance is before you try to force others to follow your version. Because I'm sorry, it's very incorrect.

Also, props to you for finally admit you only BELIEVE homosexuality is a sin. At least you aren't trying to force others to think it's a fact anymore. (Circular logic hurts doesn't it?)

 

[MrPirate]

I don't like it when you say homosexuality is righteous. That's my issue.

Your like or dislike of a minority neither changes the truth nor does it change my willingness to speak it.

That has nothing to do with people that justify immorality.

Are you defending the immorality of false witness then?

You can call it all the political labels you want to. My issue with it is a moral one.

Prejudice and discrimination are moral issues. It doesn’t matter if that prejudice is directed towards blacks or Jews or homosexuals or Muslims or the handicapped.

I recall we have covered this before. Biblically, the issue I have is your preaching.

I am certain you have no clue as to what if any minority I belong to.
I also oppose racism…do you think that makes me black?

I support everything the bible says.

So you are saying that you DO slavery, racism, animal sacrifice and the use of rape to force marriage on a woman.

How sad



-------------------------------------------

you left out verse Ez 16:50

No, I didn’t

The hebrew word is tow e'bah, and it's the same word used to describe the male on male sex in Lev 20:13, which was punishable by death under the law.

Tow’ebah Abominable (custom, thing) abomination. used to describe what the Israelites considered an abhorrence
Shakab (rape) is the term used in Leviticus Lev 20:13 is not the same as shakhabh (to lie with) or mishkabh (to have sexual/carnal relations with)
Rape, whether it be male on female or male on male is an abominable thing.

DL Foster is black. Why don't you read what he has to say about your false analogy that steals from the black civil rights cause.

are you black?



"Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group."
Coretta Scott King

.
MB: God was always prejudiced against sin. God made up His mind about sin a long time ago. Jesus died on a cross to judge all sin past, present, and future. Hence the Lord's sacrifice "pre judged" the sins we commit today -- these are the root words for "prejudice." He died on a cross for sinners, but He will judge sin when it is not covered by the blood of Christ.

Using God’s word to justify hate and prejudice however is a sin

 

[SippinSingaporeSlings]

A rational explanation for why the act is wrong is just simply lacking.

Outside of religious reasons, or personal disgust, I just haven't seen a decent explanation.

 

[DMagoh]

Yet you somehow think such an absence it justifies prejudice and discrimination in a different minority.

Nope. I am not prejudice against, nor discriminate against gay people. They have equal rights. They can do anything I can do. I cant do anything they cant do. You dont want equal rights - you want additional rights that you dont already have and neither does anybody else (e.g., marrying someone of the same sex).

 

[DMagoh]

A rational explanation for why the act is wrong is just simply lacking.

Outside of religious reasons...

Well, you can stop right there. "Outside of religious reasons..." - God makes the rules. Sorry.

 

[ReformedChapin]

A rational explanation for why the act is wrong is just simply lacking.

Outside of religious reasons, or personal disgust, I just haven't seen a decent explanation.

You cannot have ethics outside of religious reasons?

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Well, you can stop right there. "Outside of religious reasons..." - God makes the rules. Sorry.

So what if God didn't make that a rule? God makes the rules. Which means in the end, He can decide anything is a sin. Therefore the only solution is to not do anything. Wait, what if that's a sin?

God only makes what is sin, sin, for a reason.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

You cannot have ethics outside of religious reasons?

You can. But recall that outside of religion, homosexuality is perfectly okay because there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[ReformedChapin]

So what if God didn't make that a rule? God makes the rules. Which means in the end, He can decide anything is a sin. Therefore the only solution is to not do anything. Wait, what if that's a sin?

God only makes what is sin, sin, for a reason.

God already decided what is a sin or not. There is no reason for him to change it.

 

[ReformedChapin]

You can. But recall that outside of religion, homosexuality is perfectly okay because there's nothing wrong with it.

Outside of religion there is no such thing as right or wrong, there would just be action and reaction. I would be perfectly justified in killing babies and no one would be able to say anything about it.