SaepiusOfficio said:
And now the underlying sexism is clearly exposed. Oh no, they say, we believe women are equal. It's just that somehow being equal doesn't mean anything when it comes to the sacraments. But Amyn27 couldn't resist a poke at feminism. Someone said earlier that they would be sexist if they were arguing that women shouldn't become CEOs or PMs. Well, attacking feminism is essentially the same thing as making that argument.
In any event, I'd like to see you explain how concepts such as equal pay for equal work, responsibility given on the basis of merit not sex, etc. (aka, feminism) and concepts such as the state intervening to ensure that people aren't left to die from hunger or exposure to the elements (social democracy, which is what I think you Americans mean when you say liberalism) 'offer nothing but emptiness and self-affirmation of sin and pride'.
All this shows is that you don't understand modern feminism. Feminism, quite some time ago, ceased to be about equal rights and equal treatment and became a crusade to destroy gender roles at the most basic levels of society and human experience. (and by most basic I mean things like "language" and "logical reasoning" etc. those are things which have been HEAVILY attacked by feminist philosophy as needing to be destroyed because they are 'male dominated'. It has gone well beyond the realm of reasonableness, which is one of the main reasons they have targeted 'reasoning' itself).
I can honestly say that I don't care in the least what the sex of my boss is, or the owner of the company I work for, or the CEO. Some in here might not like Margaret Thatcher but I thought she was pretty good back in the day (I did here a bunch of rumors about her being a new ager/one worlder later.. don't know if thats true or not).
In fact, in my last job one of my female coworkers was promoted to a supervisory position over the rest of the crew which she had been a member of. After some time of that when she was getting ready to move on she told me that she felt I was the only one of the guys who treated her with respect and respected her supervisor position etc. So you can call me a sexist, or anyone else can, and it just rings of hollow shrill name calling to me because the people who actually work with me, and know me, can see what and who I am by what I do.
There are general differences between men and women, but in individual cases the generalities often don't apply. For example, looking at the most obvious issue, the physical. Men and Women have different muscle structures. Men's upper body muscle structure, in general allows for greater strength than the female muscle sctructure does.. Hormones also play a big role in that. Yet there are some individual women who are very strong and could probably out power most men.
Its relatively similar when we come to any other issue. Men and women are generally different, but even in an area where men are percieved to have an advantage, there are plenty of individual women who would excell in that area and out do many men.
None of that has anything to do with the issue of women priests. It is not an issue of ability at all. Ability simply doesn't enter into it.
I do disagre with one thing Gtsecc said, however. He made a statement which limited the issue to sacramental churches. I can see the reasoning here because of the view that non-sacramental churches are already outside the ordained authority structure, but I personally don't believe they are totaly devoid of God ordained leadership and authority, thus this issue, in my view, is still important there.
Kiwi,
you said that the NZ church has suffered no negatives as a result.. this point highlights the true difference of view point between 'liberal' and 'conservative'.
When I look at major churches (denominations/provinces et) that have accepted women's ordination I see that every one of them has, in a few decades, seriously abandoned the authority of scripture, the authority of tradition, and begun to significantly change the moral and theological doctrines of the church.
Many in the liberal camp see this as a good thing.. in my point of view, it is about the worst thing that could happen. In my view many of those churches are skating the edge of apostasy.
so no negative results is highly a matter of view point and opinion.
