Can we trust our own "common sense" logic?

[Chany]

Title says it all. I have read the proofs for God's necessary existence and have agree with the logic. However, I am just concerned that the logic is possibly wrong because of our humanity.

For example, logic dictates that two objects that weight differently should hit the ground at different times. However, we know this is not the case.

 

[golgotha61]

Title says it all. I have read the proofs for God's necessary existence and have agree with the logic. However, I am just concerned that the logic is possibly wrong because of our humanity.

For example, logic dictates that two objects that weight differently should hit the ground at different times. However, we know this is not the case.

Reasoning involves using the laws of logic. These include the law of non-contradiction which says that you can’t have A and not-A at the same time and in the same relationship. For example, the statement “My car is in the parking lot, and it is not the case that my car is in the parking lot” is necessarily false by the law of non-contradiction. Any rational person would accept this law. But why is this law true? Why should there be a law of non-contradiction, or for that matter, any laws of reasoning? The Christian can answer this question. For the Christian there is an absolute standard for reasoning; we are to pattern our thoughts after God’s. The laws of logic are a reflection of the way God thinks. The law of non-contradiction is not simply one person’s opinion of how we ought to think, rather it stems from God’s self-consistent nature. God cannot deny Himself ( 2 Timothy 2:13), and so, the way God upholds the universe will necessarily be non-contradictory. Laws of logic are God’s standard for thinking. Since God is an unchanging, sovereign, immaterial Being, the laws of logic are abstract, universal, invariant entities. In other words, they are not made of matter—they apply everywhere and at all times. Laws of logic are contingent upon God’s unchanging nature. And they are necessary for logical reasoning. Thus, rational reasoning would be impossible without the biblical God.

Dr. Jason Lisle

 

[elopez]

Title says it all. I have read the proofs for God's necessary existence and have agree with the logic. However, I am just concerned that the logic is possibly wrong because of our humanity.

For example, logic dictates that two objects that weight differently should hit the ground at different times. However, we know this is not the case.

If two objects that weigh the same are dropped from the same height, and we know that they will not hit the ground at different times, then obviously it is not 'common sense' or even logical, is it? This only happens when there is air resistance, which is common sense. That said, I don't think for a second logic could be useless or even wrong just because we are human? Don't really follow that at all.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Title says it all. I have read the proofs for God's necessary existence and have agree with the logic. However, I am just concerned that the logic is possibly wrong because of our humanity.

For example, logic dictates that two objects that weight differently should hit the ground at different times. However, we know this is not the case.

I don't think it's unhealthy to have some legitimate level of skepticism when it comes to our thinking patterns. It keeps us humble and on our toes. I don't just mean when it comes to reason and logic, I mean in things generally. The willing acceptance that we can be wrong and continue to ask all the big questions of human existence.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[hedrick]

Many Christians writers have felt that sin degrades all of us, including our ability to reason. While we can still use logic in some abstract way, in practice logic is part of an analysis and the whole process of using it requires good judgement. If our judgement is corrupted by sin, the ability to do logic may mislead us.

Since we are all sinful to some degree, this means that we can all make mistakes, not just due to lack of knowledge but to misusing logic to justify our prejudices or even our own sin. About all we can do is ask God for guidance, and check our own reasoning against Scripture, and other people, including people from other periods of time and cultures.

This is one reason the scientific method is so useful. In areas where it applies, it provides very useful protections against bias. It can still be misused, and there are many areas where it doesn't apply, but it's still a great tool.

 

[bling]

Title says it all. I have read the proofs for God's necessary existence and have agree with the logic. However, I am just concerned that the logic is possibly wrong because of our humanity.

For example, logic dictates that two objects that weight differently should hit the ground at different times. However, we know this is not the case.

Gravity is logical, but you may have to think about it.

God has given us logical ability and expects us to use it.

We operate all the time on: “The most Logical alternative”.

God is going to judge us on how we react to what we “know” (believe), God is interested in (Our Hearts) and not on knowledge.

Logic is good and the Christian God can be explained Logically, but being the most logical alternative does not mean you will accept that alternative.

 

[elman]

If we do not rely on our own sense of logic and commonsense, whose do we rely upon?

 

[hedrick]

If we do no rely on our own sense of logic and commonsense, whose do we rely upon?

In the end we have to rely on our own analysis. But if we understand the limitations of our reasoning, I hope we'll be more careful to crosscheck our initial conclusions with things like Scripture and other Christians.

 

[elman]

In the end we have to rely on our own analysis. But if we understand the limitations of our reasoning, I hope we'll be more careful to crosscheck our initial conclusions with things like Scripture and other Christians.

I have no problem with checking with scripture and other people, but you still have to rely on your own common sense to decide if the advise you are receiving is correct. I think it is a mistake to let anyone be an absolute authority in your life. I agree with your first comment-=-in the end we have to rely on ourselves.

 

[food4thought]

Gravity is logical, but you may have to think about it.

God has given us logical ability and expects us to use it.

We operate all the time on: “The most Logical alternative”.

God is going to judge us on how we react to what we “know” (believe), God is interested in (Our Hearts) and not on knowledge.

Logic is good and the Christian God can be explained Logically, but being the most logical alternative does not mean you will accept that alternative.

Carefull there, as I think the Tri-Unity transcends human logic, although it really doesn't contradict logic... we can understand the basic concept by realizing that everything in the material universe is a plural unity (atoms, cells= us and every other biological), so is an egg in a sense (yolk, white, shell= egg). Problem is, we cannot fathom how a plural unity of intelligence works... this is beyond human logic and comprehension.

I agree with some others here. Human logic is a tool God has given us to use, and it is good. Problem is, humans are faulty and at times our logic can only explain what we are able to comprehend. Always keep an open mind, what you think you know may not be true.

 

[bling]

Carefull there, as I think the Tri-Unity transcends human logic, although it really doesn't contradict logic... we can understand the basic concept by realizing that everything in the material universe is a plural unity (atoms, cells= us and every other biological), so is an egg in a sense (yolk, white, shell= egg). Problem is, we cannot fathom how a plural unity of intelligence works... this is beyond human logic and comprehension.

I agree with some others here. Human logic is a tool God has given us to use, and it is good. Problem is, humans are faulty and at times our logic can only explain what we are able to comprehend. Always keep an open mind, what you think you know may not be true.

We should settle upon the “most logical alternative” for the moment and until something better comes along even if we cannot explain it. The trinity may never be humanly possible to understand, but that is the best explanation for the relationship between God the father, son, and Holy Spirit. God/Christ do the best they can with human terms explaining their relationship. The word “trinity” is not definable in human terms, but the word we use to describe that relationship.

 

[Daniel25]

Carefull there, as I think the Tri-Unity transcends human logic, although it really doesn't contradict logic... we can understand the basic concept by realizing that everything in the material universe is a plural unity (atoms, cells= us and every other biological), so is an egg in a sense (yolk, white, shell= egg). Problem is, we cannot fathom how a plural unity of intelligence works... this is beyond human logic and comprehension.

I agree with some others here. Human logic is a tool God has given us to use, and it is good. Problem is, humans are faulty and at times our logic can only explain what we are able to comprehend. Always keep an open mind, what you think you know may not be true.

logic is much less sexy than internet people make it out to be. It is merely the necessary and the sufficient; a trinity can be logical if we are dealing with nontransistive groups, for example.


At any rate, the God you construct from logic is not a terribly compelling creature.

 

[someguy14]

Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 

[Chany]

At any rate, the God you construct from logic is not a terribly compelling creature.

I don't care how compelling or dynamic He is, I just want to know if some sort of higher intelligent designer exists. I thought St. Thomas Aquinas' five proofs were sound, I just am concerned about two things:

The big bounce theory (look it up)- if it is true, the universe is infinite, ruining the argument.

The faultiness of our logic- once again, I am concerned that our logic might be swayed by our own narcissistic nature. We can't just be creatures who were progressed to consciousnesses by evolution, so we have to justify that a higher meaning exists to sleep at night.

God is going to judge us on how we react to what we “know” (believe), God is interested in (Our Hearts) and not on knowledge.

How are we supposed to do what God wants if we simply do what we "know" to believe. By that logic, suicide bombers must really be favored by God. Your logic is flawed; all I'm saying is that our logic for the five proofs may be wrong.

I do not want the best possible alternative for something as God. I want to know God exists and is real as much as my computer and the earth around me.

 

[Daniel25]

I don't care how compelling or dynamic He is, I just want to know if some sort of higher intelligent designer exists. I thought St. Thomas Aquinas' five proofs were sound, I just am concerned about two things:

The big bounce theory (look it up)- if it is true, the universe is infinite, ruining the argument.

The faultiness of our logic- once again, I am concerned that our logic might be swayed by our own narcissistic nature. We can't just be creatures who were progressed to consciousnesses by evolution, so we have to justify that a higher meaning exists to sleep at night.

The necessary creator is only necessarily supernatural. Omniscence, Intelligence--- nay even Cognizance is not presupposed in the necessary creator. Let me assure you, the God devoid of revelation isn't to be bothered with; because even if you wanted to (for no particular reason) attune your life with his intent, you still wouldn't know 1. how to know those intents or 2. whether or not it would be good to do so or 3. if he even has intents. Furthermore, the creator-God only supposes a God once existed, and doens't necessarily mean a God still exists... so on, so forth.


Revelation and authority are necessary to come to some sort of functional understanding of God.

 

[Daniel25]

as for logic, the danger is in the assumptions, not its functioning. Abadoning logic leaves your ideas with no common frame of refrence to make them communicatable to other people. A non-communicatable idea can hardly be said to be true in a discussion.

 

[Chany]

I understand the importance of divine revelation, the Bible, and the pope/some sort of authority for interpretation. All I want is to be certain that some sort of God exists because of a truly logical necessity, not just having a little "faith." If that can be shown, as well as the fact that we can trust the logic behind it, I will eventually convert to something, rather than just always wondering.

I don't need to understand every single working of good like a science textbook, I just want to know he exists.

 

[food4thought]

We should settle upon the “most logical alternative” for the moment and until something better comes along even if we cannot explain it. The trinity may never be humanly possible to understand, but that is the best explanation for the relationship between God the father, son, and Holy Spirit. God/Christ do the best they can with human terms explaining their relationship. The word “trinity” is not definable in human terms, but the word we use to describe that relationship.

Agreed.

I don't care how compelling or dynamic He is, I just want to know if some sort of higher intelligent designer exists. I thought St. Thomas Aquinas' five proofs were sound, I just am concerned about two things:

The big bounce theory (look it up)- if it is true, the universe is infinite, ruining the argument.

The faultiness of our logic- once again, I am concerned that our logic might be swayed by our own narcissistic nature. We can't just be creatures who were progressed to consciousnesses by evolution, so we have to justify that a higher meaning exists to sleep at night.



How are we supposed to do what God wants if we simply do what we "know" to believe. By that logic, suicide bombers must really be favored by God. Your logic is flawed; all I'm saying is that our logic for the five proofs may be wrong.

I do not want the best possible alternative for something as God. I want to know God exists and is real as much as my computer and the earth around me.

I am not entirly familiar with Aquinas' 5 proofs, but I do believe that God is real and belief in Him is quite logical based on human conscience, existance of the universe, existance of intelligence, etc (are these some of Aquinas' arguments?).

The Big Bounce theory says the universe oscilates, correct? From everything we currently understand about expansion, this theory, as well as the Big Crunch theory, are highly unlikely. Dark matter and dark energy seem to have the upper hand, making the expansion infinite.

Our logic CAN BE faulty, but that is why it is important to test logic, just like a scientific theory can be faulty, and we test these theories against evidence to see whether they are good. I personally disbelieve evolution based upon some reading and light study I have done, but by all means do not let belief in evolution keep you from God, as there are hundreds on this site alone who are solid christians and believe strongly in evolution.

Not all religions are true, although most have some aspects of truth in them. The jihadists who blow themselves up believe they enter hevean by dying in war against unbelievers. The Bible teaches that one enters heaven by faith in Jesus Christ, which leads to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which leads to loving others... see, not much danger in being wrong here

Seriously, Chany, we all have doubts and questions we do not have answers to, yet we who have received Jesus as our Lord and Savior now KNOW that God is real because over time He has expressed Himself through us because we have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. If you wait to make a decision until you have no doubts or unanswered questions, you most likely will never make a decision.

My advice to you, since you seem to have a solid belief that there IS a God, that you take a step in faith, and let God reveal Himself to you in a personal way. Ask Him into your heart by faith, asking for forgiveness and believing (as much as you can) in Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

God sent Jesus to pay for all our sins (mistakes) at the cross. His resurrection is proof that God accepted that payment, and by placing our faith in Him and what He did on our behalf, we can receive the promise of the Holy Spirit living within us. Then you will KNOW that the Christian God is the true and real God.

God bless you;
Mike