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Can We Prove Anything?

GrowingSmaller

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Still we have confirmation bias and motivated reasoning, motivated perception etc...

For example, is the sky cloudy today? (were you more aware of that, or philosohy until I posed the question?)



 
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zippy2006

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No, we always need to start from axioms.

This is a common modern sentiment. Underlying it are two assumptions that classical philosophy would find overtly strange:

  1. A proof or demonstration by definition starts with axioms.
  2. Axioms are ungrounded and in some sense arbitrary or at least merely stipulations common to a community or race.

Now "axiom" does have that flavor, but "first principle" or "self-evident truth" does not. In any case, saying that nothing can ultimately be proven because axioms cannot be arrived at syllogistically ignores a great deal of philosophy and epistemology. Syllogistic reasoning has traditionally only been understood to be a single part of the reasoning capacities of the human being.
 
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quatona

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Hmm. I didn´t mean to use "axiom" in the way you defined it (with that touch of arbitrariness to it). I meant to use it as sort of "inescapable premise". These premises can not be "proven" (and from within the frame of reference they are used in they needn´t be "proven", I may add.).
So it seems to me that you and I do not really disagree (beyond possible disagreements on usage of certain words).
 
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Ken-1122

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Yes I prove things all the time.

Ken
 
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durangodawood

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Specific mathematical equations, (base 10) actions that have taken place, personal preferences, and the list goes on.

Ken
Yeah, we talked about math already.
Go ahead. Prove a personal preference.
 
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durangodawood

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Things I can prove
*1+1=2 (Base 10)
*I stand over 5 feet tall
*I prefer the taste of sweet over bitter

Need I go on?

Ken
None of those can be proven without resting on certain unprovable assumptions.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Nice explanation.

Yes, it's true in principle; but in practice, even falsification isn't absolutely certain; falsification is far more effective and reliable than verification, but, like any human endeavour is fallible itself. Multiple falsifications of an hypothesis via independent means or methods will get you as close to absolute certainty as makes no practical difference, but you can never be absolutely certain. I'm absolutely certain of that
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Brain in a vat? Stand anything tall? I'm afraid I don't speak gibberish; care to repeat that in English?
'Brain in a vat' is solipsism lite - the idea is that the information your senses tell you could be entirely fake, and, in true Hammer Horror or Twilight Zone style, you're just a brain floating in a jar, being fed convincing sensory information by the stimulation of your nerves.

I suppose the modern equivalent would be being in the Matrix.

If you were just a brain in a jar, you wouldn't have a body to measure, so you wouldn't be any measure of tall (you wouldn't stand anything tall).
 
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Chriliman

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Lets assume for a second that the truth is that we're all brains in vats. How could this truth be proven true?

If it were proven true, wouldn't the next question be "why are we all brains in vats?" Implying a higher more complex reason for why we're all brains in vats. Which would then show that the fact that we're all brains in vats is actually not the absolute truth(it would be a fact) because it raises more questions and implies an even more meaningful truth that beckons to be understood.
 
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durangodawood

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It cant be proven true. And no one said it could.
 
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Chriliman

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It cant be proven true. And no one said it could.

It's a hypothetical.

I'm curious as to how you're so certain that this truth can't be proven true? Was it proven false to you? This is the only explanation for your apparent certainty.
 
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DogmaHunter

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I can not rationally argue against this.
I have to concede. You are correct.

Perhaps I'll rephrase and say that such falsification is as close to "certain" as it can rationally get?
 
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durangodawood

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It's a hypothetical.

I'm curious as to how you're so certain that this truth can't be proven true? Was it proven false to you? This is the only explanation for your apparent certainty.
Yes. Its a hypothetical situation that destroys any certainty of sensory input.
 
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