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Can we have some fact checkers please.

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by hislegacy, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. RocksInMyHead

    RocksInMyHead God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

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    What doesn't make sense about it? Do you know how much they owed on the house? What the mortgage payment was? Was her father getting SSI/disability at all?

    At 40 hours per week, 1.25/hr works out to $200/month before taxes. Per the tax brackets of the time, that would have been $170/month after taxes. Median home price in Oklahoma in 1960 (I'm guessing at the year they purchased) was $7900 (not adjusted for inflation). Running that through a mortgage calculator, on a 30-year fixed rate of 3.8% with a 20% down payment, that's a grand total of $30/month in mortgage payments. Obviously I'm fudging a lot of numbers here, but even including property taxes, insurance, etc and accounting for less of a down payment or a higher interest rate, $170/month would have been more than enough to pay the mortgage on a house in Oklahoma in the 1960s.
     
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  3. CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

    CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN I'm praying for my dad to get well.

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    Maybe she's gotten so uses to saying middle school. Because of her grandkids. Who know.
     
  4. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    What's wrong with fact checking her?
     
  5. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Nothing. I fact check all sorts of things.

    See post #2 for your answer. It's good.
     
  6. RocksInMyHead

    RocksInMyHead God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

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    Nothing - I did, after all. I'm just wondering why you thought that needed a fact check. Did you have reason to doubt her?
     
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  7. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

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    Weren’t down payments even bigger in the past?

    Fact checking is fine, but it’s probably going to be impossible without her parents’ financial records. Either way, you have no reason to doubt her except for some nonsensical right wing claims about her past experiences with pregnancy discrimination.
     
  8. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Likely there will be a campaign to smear Warren, since she may become the competition to Trump in the election.

    Name calling like calling her "Pocahontas" probably wouldn't be thought to be enough to defame her.

    Especially after more people understand what Trump has done vis a vis Ukraine.

    Based on what I've already seen from the 2016 election, my guess is that political strategists, whether Russian or American, will try to make up new credible lies that can trick enough people and make them believe various defamatory smears against her long enough to win the election.

    They won't be believers though I expect. They won't be people that fear God, and won't fear --

    Romans 2:6 God "will repay each one according to his deeds."

    as they should.

    But I'm not that concerned, because this world is only temporary, and the final victory is His.
     
  9. RocksInMyHead

    RocksInMyHead God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

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    Honestly, I have no idea. It would make sense though, given how much housing prices have risen relative to wages (i.e. it was much easier to save up a large down payment than it is now). Not sure if my grandparents' old financial records are still around - I'll have a look. They purchased their house in the mid '60s, so roughly the same period, though in California rather than Oklahoma.

    Edit: Off by a decade. Mid '70s. They paid around $40,000 for their house, put 20% down, and paid just over $200 per month on their mortgage. They also kept EVERYTHING.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  10. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

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    I’m probably off, too, though in the other direction. I think I’m thinking of the pre-war housing market.
     
  11. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Actaully, this is a good analysis, and it's neat you could find the unadjusted for inflation median home price for Oklahoma in 1960.

    We (me and my parents) moved to Oklahoma in about 1973 or so, and they bought a modest little home (but brick nicely) on the edge of Duncan, Oklahoma, and I remember thinking a lot about the prices of houses at that time.

    Which became very relevant to me as I eventually got a below-minimum wage job helping build a house from the ground up by hand for $2/hour at age 13, because I was better with a hammer than anyone else willing to work for that wage my drafting teacher could find. :)

    So, the dollars and cents of it all made sorta an impression on me. I noticed how long it would have taken me to earn a house at that rate, lol.

    Anyway, you analysis is good, and you need to be more forthright about that.

    Don't say a word like 'fudge' when you use solid numbers and perfectly reasonable expectations about T&I. Your overall conclusion isn't questionable, but is reliable. I used 5.1% for the mortgage interest rate, and the payment without T&I was $34 which is ~$30 for practical purposes. $30 or $40 result in the same conclusion. It was typically affordable with modest income, for a modest house, to continue an existing mortgage, to take up the payments.
     
  12. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    I've confirmed the numbers and analysis in post#2.

    It was typically affordable with very modest income, minimum wage, for a modest house to continue an existing mortgage, to take up the payments.

    Part of why Trump got elected is exactly because that stopped being true, over time, long ago now. And much worse, that even with 2 incomes, families often cannot afford an average house in a good school district, too often.

    Can't afford college.

    Can't afford a middle class lifestyle.

    That's a large part of why Trump got elected.

    And it's why Elizabeth Warren became known (to me and those who read her book) for analysing and figuring out in depth.

    While Trump is trying reasonable things he thinks will help, it's Warren who understands it better, and what would more fully fix that problem.
     
  13. GoldenBoy89

    GoldenBoy89 We're Still Here

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    But wait a minute... This would mean Elizabeth Warren isn’t just making things up.

    Now, why’d you have to go ruin a perfectly good smear’n thread with facts and numbers like that?
     
  14. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No need for fact checkers. I am sure that dear Elizabeth knows what she is talking about here and elsewhere. After all, she was a college professor.
     
  15. Kentonio

    Kentonio Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this absolutely. Younger people today really can't wrap their heads around the idea that someone on an low level manual job used to be able to support a home/family in the past. When you bring it up people tend to laugh as if that could never be true again.

    Yet no-one seems to ask why exactly it was possible before but apparently is so impossible now..
     
  16. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Good point. Here's part of why -->

    [​IMG]
    The buying power of the minimum wage was higher in the 1960s, and also homes were more modest and low in cost relative to now for ok school districts.

     
  17. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, your graph shows that the buying power of minimum wage in the 60's was comparable to what it is now.

    The numbers @RocksInMyHead posted still work out today when adjusted for inflation. $7900 in 1960 is worth about $69000 today, and you can still find houses in that price range in small towns. A mortgage on a house like that would come out to around $300/mo, which ought to be manageable for someone making minimum wage.
     
  18. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    A minimum wage job in the 60s could buy everything a person needed i.e.food and shelter. Of course, it still can, but people are not satisfied with having their needs met so they either move on from minimum wage jobs and progress in the work force as any mature adult will do or they whine and blame others for their own lack of ambition. If one wants more than their basic needs met then they should not remain in a minimum wage job ad infinitum.
     
  19. Kentonio

    Kentonio Well-Known Member

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    The problem is though that in a lot of places no it can’t. If you’re born into an area where house prices are low enough for you to have a minimum wage job and still have a prayer of getting on the housing ladder there’s an extremely high chance of there not being many jobs available and certainly not many chances for advancement. If you're in an employment rich area, the chance of you being able to afford somewhere semi-decent to live on a minimum wage job are vanishingly small.
     
  20. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

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    As @Kentonio pointed out, no, in many places, it can't. And in the places where it can, there are few good paying jobs to which to aspire.
     
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