Can we ever get over racism?

Gary K said:

I grew up in poverty. Therefore I know far more about than any of you do as I have lived it. You can opine about theory, but I know the reality.

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So you deny anyone else's lived experience?

Enilorac said:

So you deny anyone else's lived experience?

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I'm not denying anything. The people denying things are the ones refusing to read the evidence I gave.

I am amused that you are now an educator and yet claim racism holds you back. If racism is so bad in this country how did you get your degree and your position?

I never got a degree because of the emotional damage done to me. I didn't know myself because I was not allowed to make any decisions growing up. I didn't start to know who I was until I was 40+. I have an IQ around 150 and yet never came near achieving what I'm capable of. I have the smarts to have accomplished anything I wanted but I was denied the opportunity to know who I was. Without that a person cannot accomplish anything close to what they are capable of.

So the damage done to me really affected my life. You, however, achieved your life goals. See the difference?

You've written about your ADHD and what you have done to mitigate it. How is that done? Determination. You took responsibility for it just like I did my drug addiction. I could do nothing more about my home life than you could your ADHD. Its the decisions we've made that changed our lives.

This is the point of all three books and those men faced racism and hatred far beyond anything anyone does today. It was their decision making and determination to reach their goals that made them successful and two of them world famous.

All three of them speak to the divide in the black community between those who wanted things given to them and those who took responsibility for their own lives.

Gary K said:

I never got a degree because of the emotional damage done to me. I didn't know myself because I was not allowed to make any decisions growing up. I didn't start to know who I was until I was 40+. I have an IQ around 150 and yet never came near achieving what I'm capable of. I have the smarts to have accomplished anything I wanted but I was denied the opportunity to know who I was. Without that a person cannot accomplish anything close to what they are capable of.

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This all sounds like sour grapes.
I've been blessed or cursed with a high IQ. I was also a 17 year old, Latina unwed mother. Statistically that puts me in the "homeless, welfare queen, addict" category. I finished high school and well, had a baby. HOWEVER, I managed to pull my act together, deal with my disabilities (ADHD is just one of them), deal with the rubbish that goes along with being an unwed minority mother, and managed to graduate from college, have a long career in another field (not education), make a couple more stupid mistakes, escape an abusive marriage, raise my children to be contributing and well educated citizens and deal with the death of my beloved husband WITHOUT giving up, giving in, turning to substances or allowing his death to kill me. Why? Because I refuse to be another statistic. How? By saying that I'm going to do whatever I want to do and then doing it. It took me 6 years to finish my degree...but I did it.
I've also survived a whole lot of really nasty, ugly things like s*xual assault (r*pe), homelessness, mental illness, a lifetime of physical, mental and emotional abuse. How? Again, I refuse to lie down.

You are playing a victim card here, "emotional damage". Dude, I was raised in a patriarchal, Latino, Catholic home. I wasn't even allowed to choose my own clothes! Gaslighting was the order of the day growing up. We won't discuss the rest. Therapy did wonders for me but I STILL will not use any of that stuff as an excuse to not succeed.

Enilorac said:

This all sounds like sour grapes.
I've been blessed or cursed with a high IQ. I was also a 17 year old, Latina unwed mother. Statistically that puts me in the "homeless, welfare queen, addict" category. I finished high school and well, had a baby. HOWEVER, I managed to pull my act together, deal with my disabilities (ADHD is just one of them), deal with the rubbish that goes along with being an unwed minority mother, and managed to graduate from college, have a long career in another field (not education), make a couple more stupid mistakes, escape an abusive marriage, raise my children to be contributing and well educated citizens and deal with the death of my beloved husband WITHOUT giving up, giving in, turning to substances or allowing his death to kill me. Why? Because I refuse to be another statistic. How? By saying that I'm going to do whatever I want to do and then doing it. It took me 6 years to finish my degree...but I did it.
I've also survived a whole lot of really nasty, ugly things like s*xual assault (r*pe), homelessness, mental illness, a lifetime of physical, mental and emotional abuse. How? Again, I refuse to lie down.

You are playing a victim card here, "emotional damage". Dude, I was raised in a patriarchal, Latino, Catholic home. I wasn't even allowed to choose my own clothes! Gaslighting was the order of the day growing up. We won't discuss the rest. Therapy did wonders for me but I STILL will not use any of that stuff as an excuse to not succeed.

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Thank you for reinforcing what I've been saying, and what Micheaux, Douglass, and Booker T. said. Racism stops no one if they make up their mind what they want and go after it. That is what makes a person a success. Douglass, Booker T., and Micheaux succeeded because they did exactly what you did. You put your head down and kept on going despite those who wanted to discourage you.

Congrats on reaching your goals.

Gary K said:

Thank you for reinforcing what I've been saying, and what Micheaux, Douglass, and Booker T. said. Racism stops no one if they make up their mind what they want and go after it. That is what makes a person a success. Douglass, Booker T., and Micheaux succeeded because they did exactly what you did. You put your head down and kept on going despite those who wanted to discourage you.

Congrats on reaching your goals.

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What you don't seem to understand is that, as a minority and a woman, I started out behind my white, middle class counterparts. What took me years and years to accomplish, they were able to do the same or more in less time, with less hassle. In my case, my peers fully expected to go to the college of their choice, live away from home for 4 years and major in whatever they wanted to major in. I was expected to attend the local commuter school that did not offer what I wanted to major in, because my parents saw that as unsuitable for women. I wanted the Air Force Academy. My parents couldn't bear losing control of me. When I finally did go to college and majored in something close to what I had originally wanted to major in, they called me all sorts of names, told me I was either "on the hunt" (for a husband) or gay. "No self respecting woman would want to be an engineer".

Essentially, I started, instead of on a level playing ground, from about 30 feet underground. My gender and race were two strikes, my parents the third. Maybe I could have battled the third if the first two weren't there. In job interviews, I would get asked silly questions like if I had a reliable babysitter or if my husband demanded that I be home in time to cook him dinner. Why? Would they ask a white man the same questions? Nope.

Racism and gender discrimination is real and all around. Have you heard of the "school to prison pipeline"? Walking into a restaurant as the sole Latina with 3 black friends, know what happens? People STARE at you. They mumble racial slurs under their breath. My son and daughter in law were accosted by a racist. Why? One Latino and his wife, a black girl. My grandson has been called "an abomination" because he is mixed race.

Enilorac said:

What you don't seem to understand is that, as a minority and a woman, I started out behind my white, middle class counterparts. What took me years and years to accomplish, they were able to do the same or more in less time, with less hassle. In my case, my peers fully expected to go to the college of their choice, live away from home for 4 years and major in whatever they wanted to major in. I was expected to attend the local commuter school that did not offer what I wanted to major in, because my parents saw that as unsuitable for women. I wanted the Air Force Academy. My parents couldn't bear losing control of me. When I finally did go to college and majored in something close to what I had originally wanted to major in, they called me all sorts of names, told me I was either "on the hunt" (for a husband) or gay. "No self respecting woman would want to be an engineer".

Essentially, I started, instead of on a level playing ground, from about 30 feet underground. My gender and race were two strikes, my parents the third. Maybe I could have battled the third if the first two weren't there. In job interviews, I would get asked silly questions like if I had a reliable babysitter or if my husband demanded that I be home in time to cook him dinner. Why? Would they ask a white man the same questions? Nope.

Racism and gender discrimination is real and all around. Have you heard of the "school to prison pipeline"? Walking into a restaurant as the sole Latina with 3 black friends, know what happens? People STARE at you. They mumble racial slurs under their breath. My son and daughter in law were accosted by a racist. Why? One Latino and his wife, a black girl. My grandson has been called "an abomination" because he is mixed race.

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Wow. The indoctrination goes so deep you can't even understand what I'm saying.

This article defines systemic and structural racism, using examples; explains how they damage health through many causal pathways; and suggests approaches to dismantling them.

Systemic And Structural Racism: Definitions, Examples, Health Damages, And Approaches To Dismantling | Health Affairs Journal

Gary K said:

I'm not denying anything. The people denying things are the ones refusing to read the evidence I gave.

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I see the evidence

Seems quite evident that somebody needs to take their eyes off self and turn them on Jesus

Gary K said:

I've faced more discrimination than you ever have. I was hated by my own family. I was told as a kid that I was responsible for everything that went wrong for the entire family. My old man wanted to punch me out because I asked for a $1/hour raise when I increased his revenue by more than $400/day back in the seventies. You don't know what hatred is.
All that abuse screwed me up. Am I supposed to blame them for the lousy life choices and all the drugs I did? Or did I make the right choice by taking responsibility for my own choices and changing my life with no help from them?

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See there?
You are blessed with the advantage.
You have nowhere to go but up.

The 'haves', whoever they are, can easily become complacent.

All need prayers, guidance
Most do not pray that prayer
Most do not accept that guidance

Gary O' said:

See there?
You are blessed with the advantage.
You have nowhere to go but up.

The 'haves', whoever they are, can easily become complacent.

All need prayers, guidance
Most do not pray that prayer
Most do not accept that guidance

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Racism is just another form of abuse.

Here is some of the hatred I have faced in my life. My old man's father did in a drunken boating accident when he he was little and he developed the belief that the guy his father was drinking with murdered his father because only one of them made it back to shore when they were caught several hundred yards off shore when the storm hit. That happened on Lake Superior and waves can easily reach 15 to 20 feet in moments. That man then married his mother some years later and when drunk would beat her up. The old man put a stop to that by pointing his hunting rifle at him and telling him he was a dead man if he took another step. From that he developed a pathological hatred of the man.

I developed a great friendship with my grandpa and because of that the rest of my family literally hated me. I didn't know the history as no one had ever told me but that made no difference. I became the target of severe emotional abuse because of it.

Here are a couple of examples of it.

when I was in the first grade we went on an after chuch picnic with friends. These people had two adopted daughters and one of them was my first girlfriend. It was between a 15 and 30 minute drive to where we were going and on the way I realized I had to go to the bathroom really bad.

I was born with a weak sphincter and have always had to go when I had to go. If I didn't I messed my pants. So I started begging an pleading to stop so I could go. My old man refused to stop and began yelling at me about it. I finally give up and am sitting there crying because I know I'm going to be humiliated in front of my girl friend. I hold it as lonfg as I can and then it just forces its way out. The smell spreads through the car and my old mah goes ballistic. His face is a deep read. His veins in his face and neck are standing out and he is screaming at me that the only reason I messed my pants is that I was mad he wouldn't stop.

We get where we are going and I just sit in the car. That enrages him even more and he's screaming at me to get out. The old lady sees our friends staring at what is happening and gets his attention and motions to them. My old man is suddenly all smiles and walks over to them and starts talking. I just sit there in the car wondering what is coming next. A few minutes later the old man comes back smiling like a chessy cat and tells me to get into the front seat so he could take back to town and clean up. We take off and the old man is cracking one juke after another. I'm freaking out as it was like nothing had ever happened. I'm finally so scared of him I lean forward in my seat and look at his face. What I saw there scared me so bad I have no memory of the entire round trip until we are pulling back into the picnic area. His eyes were unfocused and had a thousand yard stare and his irises had changed color from pale blue to white.

I can give you instance after instance of this over the years. I'll tell you one more that took place in my mid twenties.





the old man had a post peeling business and asked me to work for him because all his help was lazy. I felt sorry for him so I went to work for him. This was in the 70s and he was paying the three guys $8, $9, and $10 an hour. He hired me at $7 and as I had no experience I figured that was fair enough. In 4 weeks all three of those guys had gone down the road and I was doing the work of all three. In a couple of weeks he and I alone were putting out 50% more production than all four of them had.

I began thinking about a raise because I figured I had earned one and the old man wasn't offering one We're driving down the road and I bring it up by asking for what was only a very small part of his increased profits. He was saving $800 a week in wages and making several thousand a month in increased profit. I asked for $1/hour and he went insane. He started throwing backhanded punches at me. I was catching his fists and slowing him down as much as possible until he finally stopped trying to hit me. And all this time he's driving.

So how many of you faced that kind of abuse at the hands of anyone, family or not. Think that would have affected you in any way? Think that would have stopped you from both forming and reaching life goals?

Tell me the horrific abuse you suffered at the hands of other people that just stopped your life cold so you couldn't do what you wanted to with your life. Come on. Tell me all about it. Tell me how people outside your family and circle of friend stopped your life cold be being unfriendly and saying hurtful words to you.

Know what I think? I don't think a one of you will have the courage to answer

Gary K said:

Tell me the horrific abuse you suffered at the hands of other people that just stopped your life cold so you couldn't do what you wanted to with your life. Come on. Tell me all about it. Tell me how people outside your family and circle of friend stopped your life cold be being unfriendly and saying hurtful words to you.

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Physical, mental, emotional abuse from my parents. Being stopped cold by my parents so I could not go to college (was not permitted to go away to school). S*xually assaulted, r*aped, got pregnant as a result of r*pe.
So...again, stop thinking you're the only one who had it so bad.

Gary K said:

Tell me the horrific abuse you suffered at the hands of other people that just stopped your life cold so you couldn't do what you wanted to with your life. Come on. Tell me all about it. Tell me how people outside your family and circle of friend stopped your life cold be being unfriendly and saying hurtful words to you.

Know what I think? I don't think a one of you will have the courage to answer

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No, I don't care to spend any time on me.

I've found it best to study our Savior's suffering and abuse.
And how He responded.
Pretty sure he suffered more than any of us

Enilorac said:

Physical, mental, emotional abuse from my parents. Being stopped cold by my parents so I could not go to college (was not permitted to go away to school). S*xually assaulted, r*aped, got pregnant as a result of r*pe.
So...again, stop thinking you're the only one who had it so bad.

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So, you succeeded in spite of all of it. Unkind remarks had nothing to do with stopping you compared to the rest of the abuse. You made it through despite everything.

Congrats for having the grit and determination to overcome all of it. That is very impressive. Why you think unkind words were so damaging is beyond my understanding. Everyone deals with people who don't like them for any number of reasons. Racism is just one of them.

Chinese and Japanese kids in the US face a lot of racism yet they get better grades and succeed at a far higher rate than white kids.

Gary K said:

Why you think unkind words were so damaging is beyond my understanding. Everyone deals with people who don't like them for any number of reasons. Racism is just one of them.

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Get told you're "useless", "stupid", "ugly" and other things often enough and you'll start believing them. The mother made a comment about a very personal issue and I ended up very ill because I would avoid doing the thing that she made a comment about.

Enilorac said:

What you don't seem to understand is that, as a minority and a woman, I started out behind my white, middle class counterparts.

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You are conflating race with wealth.

Barack Obama started out with the advantages of wealth even though he was black.

Appalachia is full of disadvantaged children even though they are white.

Gary O' said:

Well now......is everybody having a Happy Sabbath?

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Mine is happier than your’s … it’s warm here in Florida!

atpollard said:

Mine is happier than your’s … it’s warm here in Florida!

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I dunno, man
We've got 80° sunny weather here
Strange for this time of year, but I'm takin' it.

Gary K said:

Tell me all about it. Tell me how people outside your family and circle of friend stopped your life cold be being unfriendly and saying hurtful words to you.

Know what I think? I don't think a one of you will have the courage to answer

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OK.....OK......I got one;

Heh, looking back, I was always under the radar
I pretty much preferred it that way
I wasn't much heard, and hardly seen

'And what's yer name, young man?'
'Dad, it's me.....Gary'

However, being on the outside, looking in has its advantages
If yer inside, you tend to get scrutinized
Like in some sorta petri dish
Next thing ya know, if yer not careful, yer pinned to a category cardboard

On the outside it's waaaaay different
All ya gotta do is turn around

You get to mix in...blend
Into crowds of unknowns
....and you are unknown

Now, that's freedom

Like Pistol's character said 'The world is my Osterizer'

....or, something like that

Enilorac said:

Get told you're "useless", "stupid", "ugly" and other things often enough and you'll start believing them. The mother made a comment about a very personal issue and I ended up very ill because I would avoid doing the thing that she made a comment about.

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I went through all of those things. They convinced me for years that I was. However I learned differently in my forties. I started studying temperaments and found out that I was actually normal. A lot of the things I was yelled at for and told I was useless because of were just my personality/temperament traits. Millions of people are the same way. Gender and race are not involved. All human beings have the same kinds of attributes.

Your self hatred still exists and that is very sad. You're convinced that being a woman makes you weak and incapable of of overcoming resistance, even though you have overcome incredible odds against you. I was once just like that and it was the abuse that caused me to think that way.

Gender and race have nothing whatsoever to do with your feelings of inadequacy. I really hope you come to understand that. The solution is taking all of that to God and asking Him to reveal the truth about yourself to you. He has promised us healing if we ask for it believing and He will keep His word because that is who He is. It is His nature to be loving, kind, just, and caring.

Ask Him.