Can True born again BELIEVERS lose their spiritual POSITION in Christ?

[Ron Gurley]

Q: Can True born again BELIEVERS lose their spiritual POSITION in Christ?

DEFINITIONS:
"True born again BELIEVERS" = spiritually changed / saved per John 3 / Ephesians 2.
"spiritual POSITION" = How God views each person
"in Christ" = spiritually baptized into the "Body of Christ

POSITION:
Ephesians 2:6
and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

TO BE Distinguished from PRACTICE: Believers sin after salvation. 1 John 1

SPIRITUAL BAPTISM...not to be confused with symbolic ritual water baptism
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (of Christ), whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. (indwelt by)

Romans 12:5
so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

Ephesians 4:12
for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; (the "CHURCH")

THE ARGUMENT:


ETERNAL SECURITY of true salvation
aka
ONCE SAVED, AWAYS SAVED (OSAS)

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel,
for it is the power of God FOR salvation to everyone who BELIEVES,
to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Once a spirit-led BELIEVER...ALWAYS a spirit-led BELIEVER. God does not take back His Ephesian 2 GIFTS! Jesus does not undo his completed work on the Cross!..."substitutionary atonement"

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth,
the gospel of your salvation — having also BELIEVED,
you were SEALED in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Once a SEALED BELIEVER...always a SEALED BELIEVER. Once God gives you SPIRITUAL POSITION, He does not change it.

2 Timothy 3:15
and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings
which are able to give you the wisdom that
leads to salvation THROUGH FAITH which is in Christ Jesus.

Luke 6
47 Everyone who COMES to Me and HEARS My words and ACTS on them,
I will show you whom he is like:
48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and
laid a foundation on "THE ROCK";
and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.
49 But the one who has heard and has not ACTED accordingly, (unbeliever)
is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation;(SINKING SAND!)
and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed,
and the ruin of that house was great."

Once a BELIEVER is built on "THE ROCK"...ALWAYS will he stay built on "THE ROCK". God is your unchanging support.

Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in Your sight, O Lord, my rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 78:35
And they remembered that God was their rock,
And the Most High God their Redeemer.

Read John 10 very carefully. Nothing takes believers out of the "Eternal Security" of the hand of the TRI-UNE GOD.

27 My sheep (believers) hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I GIVE eternal life to them, and they will never perish;
and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all;
and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one." (in spiritual essence)

John 3:27 John answered and said, "A man can receive nothing unless it has been GIVEN him from heaven.

Romans 8 NASB)
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing,
will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God does not want you to fear loss of your SPIRITUAL POSITION IN Jesus the Christ when you sin. The sins of believers are FORGIVEN, and there is cleansing upon confession (agreeing with God).

 

[Ron Gurley]

SALVATION IS AN IRREVOCABLE SPIRITUAL CHOICE!
ONCE SAVED, GOD WILL NEVER FORSAKE YOU!

1 Chronicles 28:9...David in giving his kingship to Solomon
“As for you, my son Solomon,
know the God of your father, and
serve Him with a whole heart (spirit) and a willing mind;
for the LORD searches all hearts, and
understands every intent of the thoughts.(soul)
If you seek Him, He will let you find Him;
but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.


Hebrews 13:5
Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, "I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you,"

Psalm 9:10
And those who know Your name will put their trust in You,
For You, O Lord, have not forsaken those who seek You.

Psalm 37:25
I have been young and now I am old,
Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken
Or his descendants begging bread.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well,
osas is finally true after someone dies, if they did endure to the end.
Before they die, "they will be saved" if they endure to the end.
The 'doctrine', though, of osas
with all the strings attached
might cause more people to fall away,
to actually finally die
without CHRIST
instead of IN CHRIST JESUS,
by giving a false idea regardless of reality
that they're already permanently
forever saved before they die, and
this idea being given and imposed and
believed BEFORE they get saved to start with.

 

[Ron Gurley]

"endure to the end" is a false doctrine.

The "endures to the end" theory
VERSUS
The true salvation explained by John 3 / Ephesians 2 / Matthew 16...>>> Believe..THEN..Follow!

The spiritual discernment of Jesus the God-Man's words: in only TWO verses.

A.

Matthew 24:3 / Mark 13 (parallel harmony) ...CONTEXT: Jesus PROPHECY of the "end of the age" of Grace
As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
"Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and (signs) of the end of the age?"

"the one who endures"... Greek 5278...hypomeno...to remain...abide, not recede or flee...
to preserve: under misfortunes and trials to hold fast to one's faith in Christ...
bear bravely and calmly: ill treatments (= "STANDS FAST")

The word "endures" appears many times in the Bible. NONE clearly states or infers that "enduring" is a pre-condition of SALVATION! Most refer to SANCTIFICATION PROCESS!

"the end"...Greek 5056...telos...termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be...the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose

"will be saved." ...Greek 4982...sozo...keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction...
to save a suffering one (from perishing)...to preserve one who is in danger of destruction...rescue

(First 3.5 years of TRIBULATION?...rise of the ANTI-CHRIST + REBUILD TEMPLE = his appearance in TEMPLE) = CONTEXT!
9 "THEN you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death,
and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
10 At that time many will turn away (APOSTASY) from the (SPIRIT GUIDED) faith (in Jesus)
and will betray and hate each other,
11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love (OBEDIENCE to Jesus) of most will grow cold,
13 but he (the BELIEVER surviving in the TRIBULATION) who stands firm (in SPIRIT GUIDED faith)
to the end (of the Tribulation) will be saved ( from APOSTASY)...( from WORSE and DEATH...see v. 22)
>>>>>"STANDING FIRM" is NOT a condition of SALVATION<<<<<
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations,
and then the end (of the first half of the Tribulation) will come(...begin GREAT TRIBULATION...last 3.5 years)

B.

Matthew 10:22... CONTEXT: Twelve Disciples: Jesus' Instructions for Service...The Tasks before them
...You will be hated by all because of My name,
but it is the one who has endured to the end (of their missions) who will be saved.(from death)
>>>>(escaping death on a missionary journey is NOT a condition of SALVATION)<<<<<

Matthew 10:1, 16, 21-23
Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority
over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.
..."Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves;
so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves....
..."Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child;
and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
You will be hated by all because of My name,
but it is the one who has endured to the end (of the mission) who will be saved.(from persecution or death)
"But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next;
for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes...

John 6:27
Do not work for the food which perishes,
but for the food which endures to eternal life,
which the Son of Man will GIVE to you,
for on Him (Jesus) the Father, God, has set His seal."

God does not want you to fear loss of salvation if you do NOT stand firm in your faith amongst the trials and tribulations of life.

 

[SkyWriting]

Well,
osas is finally true after someone dies, if they did endure to the end.
Before they die, "they will be saved" if they endure to the end.
The 'doctrine', though, of osas
with all the strings attached
might cause more people to fall away,
to actually finally die
without CHRIST
instead of IN CHRIST JESUS,
by giving a false idea regardless of reality
that they're already permanently
forever saved before they die, and
this idea being given and imposed and
believed BEFORE they get saved to start with.

There is only ONE unforgiven sin, which is blasphemy
against Gods Holy Spirit. Only that one.
The only "work" involved for people is to accept that.
Children do not Blaspheme God, so they don't go to Hell.
You may define children as you see fit.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It is written
"Members of Christ
…Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, even against your own brothers! Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.…Berean Study Bible"
1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men

 

[Ron Gurley]

The salvation described in the Gospels/NT is usually in PAST (completed action) aorist tense. Mankind does not have to "endure" anything to be instantaneously saved. He does not have to live a good life and WORK his way to heaven and God's...who views Man's works as "filthy rags (clothes)

Isaiah 64:6
For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

"will be" MEANS "certain to be"...no FUTURE tense in Greek!

Luke 19:9
And Jesus said to him,
"Today salvation HAS COME to this house,
because he, too, is a son of Abraham.

Luke 7:50
And He said to the woman (caught in sin), "Your faith has SAVED you; go in peace."

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you HAVE BEEN saved),

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been SAVED through faith;
and that (faith/belief) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Timothy 1:9
who has SAVED us and CALLED us with a holy calling,
not according to our works,
but according to His own purpose and grace
which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Titus 3:5
He SAVED us,
not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness,
but according to His mercy,
by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit

 

[RDKirk]

Well, God does, of course, see both the beginning and the end of all things simultaneously.
So to God, someone is what to us is "will be."
Those who will be with God in heaven have always been known to Him, and He sees them as such, and enjoys their presence with Him even now.
So those who are saved have always been saved and will always be saved.
But there are probably many who are not saved...just fooling themselves.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Ye, as writ in the book of Revelation.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Apparently some can if you believe the "Those who fall from the faith were never really Christian" crowd, but I don't believe that and find it insulting, insensitive, and lacking empathy.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Your post #6 ignores the most important part of what Christ did FOR you. BELIEVERS are forgiven and cleansed of their sins upon confession (agreeing with God)...1 John 1. UNbelievers are NOT forgiven.


1 John 1: 5-10 (NASB) ...God Is Light, BUT believers can walk in the Dark
This is the message we (believers) have heard from Him and announce to you,
that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. (evil / sin is the absence of God)
If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP with Him and yet
WALK in the darkness, (sin)
we lie and do not practice the truth;
but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light,
we have fellowship with "one another", (believers) and
the blood of Jesus His Son CLEANSES us from all sin.(restores FELLOWSHIP)
If we (believers) say that: WE HAVE NO SIN,
we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess (agree with God about) our sins,

He is faithful and righteous to FORGIVE us our sins and to CLEANSE us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that: WE HAVE NOT SINNED,
we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

"FOR" = Greek 1519 "eis" ~= into, unto, to, towards, for, among, (because of?) (in place of?)

FORGIVENESS / REMISSION ...Greek 859 - "aphesis'...release from bondage or imprisonment; forgiveness or pardon, of sins
(letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

Forgiveness of Sin / Sin(s) is ONE of the spiritual benefits of salvation!...(all NASB)

Matthew 26:28
for this is My blood of the covenant,
which is poured out for many FOR forgiveness of sins.

Mark 14:24
And He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out FOR many.

Luke 22:20
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying,
"This cup which is poured out FOR you is the NEW covenant IN My blood.

Luke 1:77
To give to His people the knowledge of salvation,
By (knowing) the forgiveness of their sins,

Act 5:31
"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and
(to grant) forgiveness of sins.

Act 10:43
"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that
through His name everyone who BELIEVES in Him
receives forgiveness of sins."

Ephesians 1:7
IN Him, we have redemption THROUGH His blood,
the forgiveness of our trespasses,
according to the riches of His GRACE

Colossians 1:14
in whom we have redemption,
the forgiveness of sins.

Matthew 12: ...Jesus: The ONLY Unpardonable/Unforgivable Sin
30 He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
31 "Therefore I say to you,
any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people,
but blasphemy against (God) the (Holy) Spirit shall not be forgiven.
32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him;
but whoever speaks against (God) the Holy Spirit,
it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

HOWEVER, we SHOULD believe, trust, obey, follow, be led into good works, be more Christ-like, etc...to TRY not to sin with the guidance of the indwelling God the Holy Spirit....BEFORE we run to the promises of 1 John 1.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

.... "not everyone"
some of whom
once believed (in this life we are now in, on earth)
in osas,
some of whom
simply believed they were saved without osas,

Matthew...23 - - Bible Gateway... - Cached - Similar
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your ...

 

[JIMINZ]

Q: Can True born again BELIEVERS lose their spiritual POSITION in Christ?

DEFINITIONS:
"True born again BELIEVERS" = spiritually changed / saved per John 3 / Ephesians 2.
"spiritual POSITION" = How God views each person
"in Christ" = spiritually baptized into the "Body of Christ

POSITION:
Ephesians 2:6
and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

TO BE Distinguished from PRACTICE: Believers sin after salvation. 1 John 1

SPIRITUAL BAPTISM...not to be confused with symbolic ritual water baptism
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (of Christ), whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. (indwelt by)

Romans 12:5
so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

Ephesians 4:12
for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; (the "CHURCH")

THE ARGUMENT:


ETERNAL SECURITY of true salvation
aka
ONCE SAVED, AWAYS SAVED (OSAS)

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel,
for it is the power of God FOR salvation to everyone who BELIEVES,
to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Once a spirit-led BELIEVER...ALWAYS a spirit-led BELIEVER. God does not take back His Ephesian 2 GIFTS! Jesus does not undo his completed work on the Cross!..."substitutionary atonement"

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth,
the gospel of your salvation — having also BELIEVED,
you were SEALED in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Once a SEALED BELIEVER...always a SEALED BELIEVER. Once God gives you SPIRITUAL POSITION, He does not change it.

2 Timothy 3:15
and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings
which are able to give you the wisdom that
leads to salvation THROUGH FAITH which is in Christ Jesus.

Luke 6
47 Everyone who COMES to Me and HEARS My words and ACTS on them,
I will show you whom he is like:
48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and
laid a foundation on "THE ROCK";
and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.
49 But the one who has heard and has not ACTED accordingly, (unbeliever)
is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation;(SINKING SAND!)
and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed,
and the ruin of that house was great."

Once a BELIEVER is built on "THE ROCK"...ALWAYS will he stay built on "THE ROCK". God is your unchanging support.

Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in Your sight, O Lord, my rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 78:35
And they remembered that God was their rock,
And the Most High God their Redeemer.

Read John 10 very carefully. Nothing takes believers out of the "Eternal Security" of the hand of the TRI-UNE GOD.

27 My sheep (believers) hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I GIVE eternal life to them, and they will never perish;
and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all;
and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one." (in spiritual essence)

John 3:27 John answered and said, "A man can receive nothing unless it has been GIVEN him from heaven.

Romans 8 NASB)
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing,
will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God does not want you to fear loss of your SPIRITUAL POSITION Jesus the Christ when you sin. The sins of believers are FORGIVEN, and there is cleansing upon confession (agreeing with God).

NO, they cannot.

Php. 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

God does not begin a work in us and then walk away from us, leaving us to our own devices, our own devices got us to the point where we were sinners in need of a Savior, we don't get a do-over.

God is faithful.
1Th. 5:23,24
23) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24) Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

 

[inquiring mind]

When asking if a true believer can lose his salvation we are assuming that we can truly know someone else’s heart and their spiritual position in Christ, which we cannot. If a ‘supposed’ believer falls away, they never were a true believer to begin with, the rest of us just didn’t know it... I believe it’s that simple.

 

[Tina W]

I guess it really depends on how you look at it. Since God lives outside time, He sees the end as the present. If someone is saved and falls away, you can ask were they ever really truly saved. The Bible does say there will be people that will call after God and He will say I never knew you. I think from God's perspective it's once saved always saved because He sees the end and looks at the heart, but from our perspective I don't believe in once saved always saved. It's because a person can think they are really saved when they are not then live in a false sense of security thinking heaven is guaranteed to them now. But in reality people who think they are saved and who keep striving to grow in God and get stronger may not really be saved till years later. They just thought they were saved. So I think the idea of once saved always saved is dangerous and will trick people into complacency. There's that verse in Revelations where God says He hates luke warm Christians. A person thinking they are safe because they think they are saved will make them become luke warm. Having a mindset that you need to work to keep the word that you have will keep a person watchful and hot and actively serving God. Not luke warm. Thinking once saved always saved, a person will think okay I don't have to work at this anymore, my spot is guaranteed in heaven now. So once saved always saved is a dangerous mind set to have especially when you are not 100% sure that's even a correct thing. I wouldn't risk my eternity on that idea. Personally I believe that a person can fall away from God, people do it all the time unfortunately. Maybe on their deathbed they make a confession and turn to Him again, but I believe people can fall away and they may die suddenly without a chance for a deathbed confession. Was Judas ever a true follower of Jesus? If so then he is definitely an example of falling away. Jesus saw something in him in the beginning that made Him choose Judas as His disciple and at some point Judas fell away.

 

[PropheticTimes]

A TRUE believer who REMAINS IN CHRIST cannot lose their salvation.

However, someone who perhaps at one time believed, yet allowed 'the world' to creep in and start hardening their heart, can indeed, over time, grieve the Holy Spirit enough that He will leave that person.

If you are walking in faith and relationship with Him, no, you cannot lose your salvation.

 

[Kenny'sID]

There is only ONE unforgiven sin, which is blasphemy
against Gods Holy Spirit. Only that one.
The only "work" involved for people is to accept that.
Children do not Blaspheme God, so they don't go to Hell.
You may define children as you see fit.

The unforgivable sin has nothing to do with this., why ask forgiveness when OSAS? When we are supposidely covered no matter what we do?

OSAS is a lie that, by design, puts people in a position where they can/will let their guard down, live how they please, and end up in the same place as the one who put the lie in place.

People love it, some Churches love it...it builds huge congregations of those who wan to believe it, because their pastor reinforces the lie for them...helps them feel comfortable with it. And in return, the congregations fill their plates with money.

 

[RDKirk]

Q: Can True born again BELIEVERS lose their spiritual POSITION in Christ?

"True Born again BELIEVERS?"

The answer to that question is, "No."

 

[com7fy8]

It depends on what a person means by "position".

If you mean you said a prayer which you got yourself to say . . . this could be doing a work, and we are not saved by works.

If you mean how our Father draws someone to Jesus . . . teaching the person > "everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me," Jesus says in John 6:44-45. So, if we have come to Jesus the way our Heavenly Father has brought us to Jesus, good.

And our Apostle Paul speaks of how saved people have trusted in Jesus > Ephesians 1:12.

And > "he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (in 1 Corinthians 6:17) So, if someone has become saved, God has spiritually joined the person to Jesus Himself. And being "one spirit with" Jesus is more deep and personal than just physical and social sorts of intimacy.

Now . . . if you are "one spirit with" the Lord in His own almighty power, who is going to win? Are you going to overpower God to change Him to how you are . . . or > is He going to change your nature?

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

"He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ," we have in Philippians 1:6.

And if God has truly changed our nature, we do not have the nature to depart from the LORD. So, I can see this means that if someone can turn against God, then God has not made that person safe. Saved means safe. If you are rescued, you are safe. And how does God's word say we have been made safe? He has perfected us in His love with His nature to stay with Him >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

If we are "as He is", we no longer have the nature to reject and depart from God. This is part of why "we may have boldness in the day of judgment".

So, this is included in our Biblical position in Jesus.

However, we still need more correction, according to Hebrews 12:4-11 which in verse eight says every child of God is getting His correction.

But there are people who worship free will. They claim we can totally control our own choice to receive or reject Jesus. And they can tell us to do a work of only saying a prayer and then assuming we are guaranteed Heaven even if we do not become loving persons in His love's perfection. But salvation is a package deal . . . how yes we are guaranteed Heaven, plus we are now guaranteed the correction of His love's perfection > "in this world", John clearly does say. Plus, Isaiah 55:11 guarantees how God's word "shall accomplish" all which God pleases > not limited to how we can understand Him.

So, if we can believe God that He can not lose us and will bring us to Heaven, also believe how God now is able to do all He means by His word . . . the way His love means every bit of His word.

Meanwhile, others claim that after one has gotten saved he or she stays in free will which can choose to get totally away from God so the person lose's his or her salvation. But if I am free from God, enough so I can go all the way against Him, this means I am somehow in separation from God so I can make my own choices. And separation from God is sin . . . not "one spirit with Him" (1 Corinthians 6:17) and how His almighty power is succeeding in His love.

We need to trust God to change our nature, perfecting us in His love . . . so that we are not somehow free to leave Him, but instead we are how His love is > 1 John 4:17. And if we become perfected in His love making us "as He is" "in this world" > this is our true assurance > as John says > "that we may have boldness in the day of judgment." (1 John 4:17)

So . . . it depends on if someone means to be in the position of being perfected in God's love "one spirit with Him", or if someone means something else.

 

[Kenny'sID]

God does not begin a work in us and then walk away from us, leaving us to our own devices, our own devices got us to the point where we were sinners in need of a Savior, we don't get a do-over.

And if we walk away from God? And if we do, he is not leaving us to our own devices, we are....our choice.