As far as evolution is concerned they probably dont like to bring it up to often. Admitting that humans have this evil side will show a destructive nature. That opposes evolution.
Being destructive in no way 'opposes' evolution. You seem to be under a misapprehension that evolution is only supposed to produce things that we might see as 'good' or 'nice.' This is not the case. 'Bad' things do not disprove evolution. They are entirely consistent with evolution.
You may be correct about what you say about humanity. A species that brings an end to evolution by destroying all environments and life is not a disproof of evolution, however. No one ever said evolution couldn't produce such a species.
Well it seems strange that evolution can produce a creature that knows its being evil. That knows it can have a choice in destroying or saving things but can often choose to destroy. That can be so evil against its fellow humans. I am not sure this all comes down to a level of brain power and chemicals. Animals will kill for food but I am not sure they knowingly kill or hurt. It seems humans have this extra dimension that makes us evil.
*shrug* Humans are more intelligent than other creatures. That's the extra dimension. We can be very creative, in both good and bad ways. Nothing about that disproves our evolution.
Well we are capable of doing great harm. We could destroy all the slugs, chimpanzees and all the other animals just for the sake of looking after ourselves. I dont think any animals do that. They seem to all live together and know their ranks. There are some animals that have large brain capacity but dont seem to be so evil.
*shrug* There was always going to be one animal that's the most destructive.
Evolution is suppose to be driven by biological processes that really dont think to much about the rights or the wrongs of things.
Yes.
But if it comes down to person against person or tribe against tribe to survive then maybe evolution is something that drives destruction in the end. Maybe there is not as much care for others as made out.
No one ever said evolution made us into pacifistic utopians. It makes us inclinded to work together, not irresstibly forced to do so.
Afterall if there isn't enough to go around then survival of the fittest would say lets get rid of some of the excess which is taking away from our food and resources so we have enough for ourselves. The more we allow others to have the less chance there is for us to survive. That makes evolution a very cold and uncaring process.
Yes. It is completely incapable of caring. It's as uncaring as gravity.
Maybe evolution has more to do with sin than anything else in that sense. Afterall sin is tied up with the flesh. The flesh is all to do with the physical desires and influences that can drive a person.
I believe I said earlier that it has produced selfish impulses in us as well as selfless ones, and when taken to extremes can cause terrible harm. 'Sin' I will simply take to mean another word for 'evil, wrong/harmful behavior, etc.'
Whereas following God and being born of the spirit follows the spiritual things which are selfless. It is putting others on the same par as yourself. Even to the point sometimes of sacrificing yourself for the sake of others.
Evolved behavior can also lead to individuals sacrificing themselves for the sake of others.
But that extreme can do depraved and horrible things.
Yes, as I said.
Its not like we are acting on some chemical reaction and cant help it. We often know we do wrong and have the choice. But things like anger, lust and greed can drive us to do bad things. I'm not sure its all a natural thing or something that is within us that makes us evil.
It's natural. There are, in fact, many behaviors that are influenced by brain chemistry and unbalanced chemistry can cause uncontrollable behavior. These can be mitigated with medication. Though some people simply do bad because they choose to, ignoring their empathy - as I mentioned, natural impulses are strong but they can be overcome. With both good and bad results.
This is where I believe we can overcome these things by being transformed by Jesus. But we have to let go of the that selfish part of us that wants to be in control of things. Thats when we want to be the gods of our own world and think we know better. We have to acknowledge that we are sinners and are weak to the temptations of the flesh and then allow God to rein in our lives. So its like a battle of wills where we want to rebel and do things ourselves.
I really don't see the need to bring God or Jesus into it, even if they do exist. It's not impossible for people to do these things themselves, or with help from other humans, who really do exist. You're essentially saying that these problems can only be solved with supernatural power - magic. This is demonstrably not the case.
Either that or we do actually have a side to us that is evil in nature.
I did not say that we did not. I do not believe this side comes from the boogeyman, or magic, or whatever. You said it yourself - 'nature'. That's where it comes from.
If it was just a case of biological processes then we wouldn't have this conscious part of us that can purposely choose to do evil and do all sorts of depraved things to hurt our fellow humans.
There is no reason why biological processes cannot produce this behavior.
It seems that we can tame that side of us and God seems to resore some balance. I believe we naturally fall into a good way of life when we tune into Gods way. He gives us a God conscious and we naturally want to do good and please Him. If anything else it can make us better people even if you say there isn't a God.
*shrug* Maybe. People invent all kinds of fictional deities who they claim demand a certain way of life that happens to reinforce natural impulses to do good - cooperation, togetherness, stability, etc. Every group animal species has some sort of internal order system - wolf packs, even herd animals like sheep. Apes, certainly. There's every reason why a species should strive for this sort of thing - getting along is more likely to keep you alive than fighting like mad all the time. The vast majority of humans don't cause deliberate violent harm to one-another.
I don't like the idea of people needing to believe there's a supernatural being lurking behind all this who'll punish them for stepping out of line. That's a babyish way to live, being good to avoid a smack. Be good or the boogeyman will get you. Humans ought to aspire to be better than that, I feel. They ought to recognize the benefits of being good in and of themselves and choose to do good for those reasons, not because they're scared of imaginary consequences after they die.
When I look at the animals kingdom I dont see other groups of animals going around destroying all the habitat of other animals. Or killing of their own all the time.
Have a look at ants, or locusts. Lions. Chimps. Of course, most other animal species have natural predators or are limited by the environment they've adapted to and are kept in check that way, or dwell in comparitively small groups re. humans. Humans are good at overcoming limitations and have no natural predators anymore.
It goes beyond any evolutionary process.
*shrug* As I've said, it really doesn't.
I say we because we are all the same. We are all sinners. I cant single out individuals because I dont know and each person is different. But as a whole secular society or societies without God will go down this road of self. That is the nature without God.
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I think everything we have discussed is related indirectly to whether we follow our own way of doing things or follow and trust God. I believe there is a case that following God brings good things and is the only way to find true peace and life.
Honestly, when I substitute the word 'God' for 'selfless impulses to help one-another', I don't disagree with much of what you're saying. I just think the word God has too much baggage associated with it - all that nonsense about supernatural feats and miracles and afterlives and 'if you're not part of our churhc, you're going to hell and are bad' etc etc etc.
Striving to be less insular and selfish (though not completely without regard for oneself - people need money because money = food and shelter, i.e. things you die without) but with a great deal more regard for others, less cruetly, more kindness, more empathy. Substitute 'God' for those things, and we're essentially saying the same thing.
make up your mind.
