Can the devil use dreams

[MichaelBurk]

I've never read "The Lives of The Saints," and I don't really know how or where to get a copy (Is that the whole tittle?), but I understand there's a lot of information in there about the trials and temptations of monastics.

Can the devil cause disturbing, confusing, or misleading dreams that lead to doubt and despair?

Could he send more than one such dream, or would the second dream confirm that the first dream was of God?

Are there any examples of this kind of thing in The Lives of The Saints?

 

[Justaman0000]

If it helps, I've thought about this but have never had the devil invade or cause dreams. Everything that he seems to have power over in my life is outward and during conciousness. He doesn't seem to be able to invade my thoughts but can cause things to influence them. I know when I'm having a normal dream, and I can deffinately tell the difference when I get a dream from God.

 

[MichaelBurk]

I know when I'm having a normal dream, and I can deffinately tell the difference when I get a dream from God.

What is a "normal dream," and how can you tell this from a dream from God?

Also, are you saying the devil can't invade anyone's dreams?

 

[jehoiakim]

When I have a dream from God I feel his presence of comfort and truth. When I have had dreams not of God they were empty feeling creepy and cold. These dream from God and demonic forces both were about uncomfortable subjects and I can't really explain how I know the differance other then experience.

 

[gzt]

Yes, there are no guarantees that a dream you have is from God. Dreams can certainly be from the devil. Even comforting dreams can be from the devil (say, if they comfort you with sin). The best course of action is to pay your dreams no mind and instead pay attention to the Scriptures, the lives of the saints, and the teachings of the Church for guidance and comfort. There are countless examples of people being led astray when they think they are getting comforting dreams that they know are from God. And many more of people who are led to despair by demons because they give credence to their dreams. I don't have any specific examples on hand, but if you read The Arena, there are examples. Note, however, if you read the book, the book is intended as an instruction manual for novice monks, so the disciplines suggested aren't for you, I only recommend noting the parts that say not to trust your dreams. You don't even need to read the book to get that.

EDIT: Also, I want to note for the other people answering this question, this is the Orthodox Christian forum, so if you are not Orthodox, you should probably not be answering this question. Thanks for coming by, please stay a while.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It's an interesting topic. I've heard some in Orthodoxy speculate that Satan can never enter your mind at all, but can only lay temptations in your way due to his own observations. For example, he sees you look at pornography, so he ascertains you are tempted by this fleshly habit. So he puts more such temptations in your way and might even escalate them. Same with drugs, adultery, alcoholism, theft, hatred, refusal to forgive, etc. The idea is that you start the problem with your actions, he notes them, he puts on the heat.

But can he truly enter your mind? That's something I'd find interesting to discuss and learn about as well....from an ORTHODOX point of view of course....

 

[MariaRegina]

It's an interesting topic. I've heard some in Orthodoxy speculate that Satan can never enter your mind at all, but can only lay temptations in your way due to his own observations. For example, he sees you look at pornography, so he ascertains you are tempted by this fleshly habit. So he puts more such temptations in your way and might even escalate them. Same with drugs, adultery, alcoholism, theft, hatred, refusal to forgive, etc. The idea is that you start the problem with your actions, he notes them, he puts on the heat.

But can he truly enter your mind? That's something I'd find interesting to discuss and learn about as well....from an ORTHODOX point of view of course....

One of St. Seraphim of Sarov's disciples who beheld St. Seraphim glowing brightly with holy light, thought that Satan could not possess a Christian.
That disciple was then possessed for thirty years until he was finally freed. Priests tried to exorcise him, but to no avail. However, he was freed on a special feast day prophesied by St. Seraphim.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well I don't doubt possession in the least. But I was just saying what I've heard "some" Orthodox folks say. And I wonder what the difference is between giving someone dreams or thoughts and FULL-ON POSSESSION!? I just wonder. I'm no expert on this; don't claim to be.

One of St. Seraphim of Sarov's disciples who beheld St. Seraphim glowing brightly with holy light, thought that Satan could not possess a Christian.
That disciple was then possessed for thirty years until he was finally freed. Priests tried to exorcise him, but to no avail. However, he was freed on a special feast day prophesied by St. Seraphim.

 

[Knee V]

What gzt said.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It's an interesting topic. I've heard some in Orthodoxy speculate that Satan can never enter your mind at all, but can only lay temptations in your way due to his own observations. For example, he sees you look at pornography, so he ascertains you are tempted by this fleshly habit. So he puts more such temptations in your way and might even escalate them. Same with drugs, adultery, alcoholism, theft, hatred, refusal to forgive, etc. The idea is that you start the problem with your actions, he notes them, he puts on the heat.

But can he truly enter your mind? That's something I'd find interesting to discuss and learn about as well....from an ORTHODOX point of view of course....

yeah, this is kinda what I heard. the devil watches, is extremely patient and clever, and then can suggest stuff to us very, very subtley.

 

[Dorothea]

Uh, yeah he does use our dreams. My priest told me about that because I have had many disturbing dreams in my life as an adult, but even worse since I came back to the Church and am trying to clean my mind of all the junk that's in it from my "youth" so to speak. He gets me there when I'm not as aware. I know St. John Climacus talks about this, and I have his quote typed up and keep it in my nightstand. I have been making a little progress on my dreams, which is such a relief to me. But yeah, he does.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

This is probably not useful at all, but I swear I remember reading at least one story of a life of a saint who was tormented by Satan in his dreams. I remember it because I have a long history of having an unusually high number of nightmares and had night terrors as a kid, and while I don't think Satan is causing them, reading about it made me think for a while about what Satan-tormented-dreams would be like.

 

[Dorothea]

This is probably not useful at all, but I swear I remember reading at least one story of a life of a saint who was tormented by Satan in his dreams. I remember it because I have a long history of having an unusually high number of nightmares and had night terrors as a kid, and while I don't think Satan is causing them, reading about it made me think for a while about what Satan-tormented-dreams would be like.

Incidentally, I just read about one of the side effects of hypoglycemia (what I have) is having nightmares or disturbing dreams. That could explain it. I usually had quite pleasant dreams when I was young, even through high school, but then again, when I started to see scary stuff on the news and in movies, my dreams reflected them. It's a double-edged sword having a vivid imagination.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

No telling us what you dreamed about in high school, Dot. This is a family show!

Incidentally, I just read about one of the side effects of hypoglycemia (what I have) is having nightmares or disturbing dreams. That could explain it. I usually had quite pleasant dreams when I was young, even through high school, but then again, when I started to see scary stuff on the news and in movies, my dreams reflected them. It's a double-edged sword having a vivid imagination.

 

[Lilly Owl]

I've never read "The Lives of The Saints," and I don't really know how or where to get a copy (Is that the whole tittle?), but I understand there's a lot of information in there about the trials and temptations of monastics.

Can the devil cause disturbing, confusing, or misleading dreams that lead to doubt and despair?

Could he send more than one such dream, or would the second dream confirm that the first dream was of God?

Are there any examples of this kind of thing in The Lives of The Saints?

In Job chapters 4 and 5, isn't there an account of how Satan entered into the dreams of Job as he counterfeited himself as God? (LINK)

I would think if Satan is prince of the air dreams would easily be his domain as well as any other.

 

[ikonographics]

The Fathers tell us never to trust our dreams. Why? Because the may very well be of demonic influence.

 

[Trying_to_be_Orthodox]

@MichaelBurk

dreams that lead to doubt and despair... - As I undestand, serious spirit growth suggets work with mind, including dreams. Try to read something simple about hesychasm.

@Justaman0000

...he seems to have power... - "seems" is very interesting word in your proposition. Biggest win of satan is that he persuaded all in his nonexistence.

 

[katherine2001]

Uh, yeah he does use our dreams. My priest told me about that because I have had many disturbing dreams in my life as an adult, but even worse since I came back to the Church and am trying to clean my mind of all the junk that's in it from my "youth" so to speak. He gets me there when I'm not as aware. I know St. John Climacus talks about this, and I have his quote typed up and keep it in my nightstand. I have been making a little progress on my dreams, which is such a relief to me. But yeah, he does.

I also believe that the devil can use our dreams. I know that when I was going through a period where I was having nightmares every night that my priest told me to drink some holy water before going to bed. My present priest is a big advocate of doing the prayer in the Evening prayer rule where you bless your bed with a cross while saying the prayer that accompanies it. He believes that this helps keep away the nightmares.

 

[MKJ]

Yes, there are no guarantees that a dream you have is from God. Dreams can certainly be from the devil. Even comforting dreams can be from the devil (say, if they comfort you with sin). The best course of action is to pay your dreams no mind and instead pay attention to the Scriptures, the lives of the saints, and the teachings of the Church for guidance and comfort. There are countless examples of people being led astray when they think they are getting comforting dreams that they know are from God. And many more of people who are led to despair by demons because they give credence to their dreams. I don't have any specific examples on hand, but if you read The Arena, there are examples. Note, however, if you read the book, the book is intended as an instruction manual for novice monks, so the disciplines suggested aren't for you, I only recommend noting the parts that say not to trust your dreams. You don't even need to read the book to get that.

EDIT: Also, I want to note for the other people answering this question, this is the Orthodox Christian forum, so if you are not Orthodox, you should probably not be answering this question. Thanks for coming by, please stay a while.

A friend of mine, who had an odd religious experience at a prayer service, was told the same thing about that - not to really worry about it too much, but carry on doing the things you ought to do and thinking about the things you ought to think about.

I think the principle is much the same.

 

[MKJ]

Well I don't doubt possession in the least. But I was just saying what I've heard "some" Orthodox folks say. And I wonder what the difference is between giving someone dreams or thoughts and FULL-ON POSSESSION!? I just wonder. I'm no expert on this; don't claim to be.

Not to be flippant at all, but I wonder if it is a bit like vampires - to take up residence you have to invite them in. You don't necessarily now that you are inviting them, and they can trick you, but an invitation is required.