Can someone pray your way into heaven?

Khasilooluv · Apr 8, 2013

I'm curious?
Do you believe you can pray someone's way to heaven?

I've heard some of the elders in my friend's church say that they are praying over someone's soul so that God may have mercy on them and grant them salvation. Are they referring to that person finding God and then finding salvation... Or are they hoping their prayers can get the person into Heaven??

Hard to explain what I mean but hopefully I made it kind of clear...

Paradoxum · Apr 8, 2013

God is love. That should be central to a Christians' hopes.

If you think a loving Father would throw their child into hell, that is up to you.

Edit: My previous reply was aimed at a different thread.

ActionJ · Apr 9, 2013

I'm not sure what post #2 has to do with post #1 but perhaps I'm missing something.

Back to the OP:

I pray for lost souls often but I know what the Bible says about entry into God's Kingdom. No matter how much I pray for someone - if they reject Jesus Christ they will not enter into His Kingdom.

Miss Spaulding · Apr 9, 2013

Khasilooluv said:
I'm curious?
Do you believe you can pray someone's way to heaven?

I've heard some of the elders in my friend's church say that they are praying over someone's soul so that God may have mercy on them and grant them salvation. Are they referring to that person finding God and then finding salvation... Or are they hoping their prayers can get the person into Heaven??

Hard to explain what I mean but hopefully I made it kind of clear...

No, you cannot pray someone's soul into heaven. It's completely unbiblical and a no-brainer. Let's take a moment and remember John 14:6..."Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me"

jayem · Apr 9, 2013

This is my non-theist perspective. If you believe in a sovereign God, then why would you believe you could pray for a favor? Hasn't God already decided everything that will happen? Can your prayers change his mind about anything? Theologically, that makes no sense. Jesus said you pray "thy will be done." Not "my will be done." If you pray for anything, you should pray for yourself--that God gives you the strength to deal with what has been decreed.

Wiccan_Child · Apr 9, 2013

Miss Spaulding said:
No, you cannot pray someone's soul into heaven. It's completely unbiblical and a no-brainer. Let's take a moment and remember John 14:6..."Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me"

So what if God, moved by a widow's prayer, decides to make a special exemption and allow the husband into heaven despite 'only' being a Muslim? That would satisfy John 14:6, as it is only by God/Jesus that the person enters Heaven.

Wiccan_Child · Apr 9, 2013

ActionJ said:
I'm not sure what post #2 has to do with post #1 but perhaps I'm missing something.

Back to the OP:

I pray for lost souls often but I know what the Bible says about entry into God's Kingdom. No matter how much I pray for someone - if they reject Jesus Christ they will not enter into His Kingdom.

If your prayer has no hope of affecting whether they get into Heaven or Hell, then what is it you pray for?

ActionJ · Apr 9, 2013

Wiccan_Child said:
If your prayer has no hope of affecting whether they get into Heaven or Hell, then what is it you pray for?

I didn't say that I pray without hope. I said that my prayer isn't a ticket into the Kingdom. God knows His sheep and will call them. I pray that they listen to the call and accept Him as their Shepherd.

ActionJ · Apr 9, 2013

Wiccan_Child said:
So what if God, moved by a widow's prayer, decides to make a special exemption and allow the husband into heaven despite 'only' being a Muslim? That would satisfy John 14:6, as it is only by God/Jesus that the person enters Heaven.

God doesn't contradict Himself in this regard. His message is quite clear:

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

ActionJ · Apr 9, 2013

jayem said:
This is my non-theist perspective. If you believe in a sovereign God, then why would you believe you could pray for a favor? Hasn't God already decided everything that will happen? Can your prayers change his mind about anything? Theologically, that makes no sense. Jesus said you pray "thy will be done." Not "my will be done." If you pray for anything, you should pray for yourself--that God gives you the strength to deal with what has been decreed.

God's will shall be done ultimately but we're still told that we should pray for each other:

James 5:16, "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

Acts 8:24, "Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me."

Wiccan_Child · Apr 9, 2013

ActionJ said:
I didn't say that I pray without hope. I said that my prayer isn't a ticket into the Kingdom. God knows His sheep and will call them. I pray that they listen to the call and accept Him as their Shepherd.

But, only God hears your prayers. Unless he intervenes in the world on your behalf, does your prayer accomplish anything beyond your own mental wellbeing?

ActionJ said:
God doesn't contradict Himself in this regard. His message is quite clear:

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

That may well be what God said, but can't God change his mind? Can't God decided, in his sovereignty and omnipotence, to bend the rules in response to a particularly impassioned plea?

If God made the rules, God can break the rules, no?

ActionJ · Apr 9, 2013

Wiccan_Child said:
But, only God hears your prayers. Unless he intervenes in the world on your behalf, does your prayer accomplish anything beyond your own mental wellbeing?

That may well be what God said, but can't God change his mind? Can't God decided, in his sovereignty and omnipotence, to bend the rules in response to a particularly impassioned plea?

If God made the rules, God can break the rules, no?

I'll let God answer that one:

Hebrews 13:8, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

Isaiah 40:8, "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."

1 Peter 1:25, "But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."

Truth is always truth and cannot change.

Khasilooluv · Apr 9, 2013

Very interesting answers here! Thank you for these!

mandelduke · Apr 9, 2013

If someone I loved were lost, I would certainly pray for his or her salvation, however nobody wants you saved more than God does!

Tom White · Apr 16, 2013

Khasilooluv said:
Do you believe you can pray someone's way to heaven?

One can pray all they want but one's prayer doesn't make God do something if he chooses not to do it.

Khasilooluv said:
I've heard some of the elders in my friend's church say that they are praying over someone's soul so that God may have mercy on them and grant them salvation. Are they referring to that person finding God and then finding salvation... Or are they hoping their prayers can get the person into Heaven??

The latter is part of the former, but salvation goes beyond simply going to heaven when you die. They want a specific person to become a born-again Christian basically, so they're petitioning God with a request. Which is not inappropriate because whether or not one becomes a Christian is dependent on God turning them into one independent of their input, not on their choice or response to the gospel or anything. That's how we get doctrines like predestination and election, but I'm getting ahead of myself...

Assuming the person is alive, anyway. If they're dead then they're just being dumb.

diychristian · Apr 17, 2013

Khasilooluv said:
I'm curious?
Do you believe you can pray someone's way to heaven?

I've heard some of the elders in my friend's church say that they are praying over someone's soul so that God may have mercy on them and grant them salvation. Are they referring to that person finding God and then finding salvation... Or are they hoping their prayers can get the person into Heaven??

Hard to explain what I mean but hopefully I made it kind of clear...

I think this is probably more complicated than it seems on the surface. While at death their fate is sealed I don't think a post mortem prayer is worthless and I say that because we are speaking to a God who transcends time. So God who sees past present and future can hear your prayer prior to that person dying. Some argue in a sense He sees and hears all time and space at once so your prayers are always on time. Now a transcendent God can act in time prior to that persons death in response to a post mortem prayer. But your prayers themselves do not save a person from judgment only Jesus does.

Wiccan_Child · Apr 18, 2013

diychristian said:
I think this is probably more complicated than it seems on the surface. While at death their fate is sealed I don't think a post mortem prayer is worthless and I say that because we are speaking to a God who transcends time. So God who sees past present and future can hear your prayer prior to that person dying. Some argue in a sense He sees and hears all time and space at once so your prayers are always on time. Now a transcendent God can act in time prior to that persons death in response to a post mortem prayer. But your prayers themselves do not save a person from judgment only Jesus does.

Then what are prayers good for, besides private communiques between you and God? Can they spur God into action he otherwise wouldn't take? Can they change his mind, and if so, what does that mean for his sovereignty and his omniscience?

If prayer can, however indirectly, lead to a person being saved, why not simply pray for the salvation of all souls? Wouldn't that immediately save any and all souls that prayer could, is, or will save? Wouldn't that remove any need to pray for souls in the future? After all, if God transcends time, that one prayer should echo throughout eternity. Indeed, you can pray for your own salvation, could you not?

diychristian · Apr 18, 2013

Wiccan_Child said:
Then what are prayers good for, besides private communiques between you and God? Can they spur God into action he otherwise wouldn't take? Can they change his mind, and if so, what does that mean for his sovereignty and his omniscience?

If prayer can, however indirectly, lead to a person being saved, why not simply pray for the salvation of all souls? Wouldn't that immediately save any and all souls that prayer could, is, or will save? Wouldn't that remove any need to pray for souls in the future? After all, if God transcends time, that one prayer should echo throughout eternity. Indeed, you can pray for your own salvation, could you not?

When God creates something outside of His own being like human kind He creates a will seperate from His. If He didn't then He would just created Himself. With our own freewill God would only be able to influence us. He wouldn't intervene in our own wills. If God did tampered with our will here and there I think that would make God Himself at fault if at anytime we fell from grace. After all we could just say to God, "well if you didn't change my mind back then I would of done the right thing later".

Again prayer can save no one only Jesus can. Also assuming if you are legitimately praying to God then you must all ready have a faith in Him and are therefore SAVED!

As far as offering up some ubiquitous prayer for souls of all time.

God has the right above ALL to say "no" to any prayer given up to Him. I also doubt any sincerity of an all encompassing prayer.

I think I need to make something clear I think when offering up a prayer post mortem one should ask God for help in that persons earthly life and not necessarily for Him to change His judgement after they have passed.

Wiccan_Child · Apr 18, 2013

diychristian said:
When God creates something outside of His own being like human kind He creates a will seperate from His. If He didn't then He would just created Himself. With our own freewill God would only be able to influence us. He wouldn't intervene in our own wills. If God did tampered with our will here and there I think that would make God Himself at fault if at anytime we fell from grace. After all we could just say to God, "well if you didn't change my mind back then I would of done the right thing later".

Indeed. However, that he can but doesn't also makes him at fault any time we fell from grace: after all, he could have prevented it, and given the end result (i.e., eternal suffering) should prevent it, but he didn't. He could even do it without ever removing a person's free will, moral agency, accountability, or whatever else God holds to be more important than suffering.

diychristian said:
Again prayer can save no one only Jesus can. Also assuming if you are legitimately praying to God then you must all ready have a faith in Him and are therefore SAVED!

Unless you're praying to the wrong god, of course. But my question was why person X would pray 'for' deceased person Y - besides talking to God, what does this prayer accomplish? You seemed to imply that it does more than this, so my question is: what?

diychristian said:
As far as offering up some ubiquitous prayer for souls of all time.

God has the right above ALL to say "no" to any prayer given up to Him. I also doubt any sincerity of an all encompassing prayer.

Why? The eternal suffering of non-Christian souls outweighs any mortal suffering - the Holocaust, the Holodomor, Darfur, Rwanda, etc. Why wouldn't a person praying for the salvation of all souls be sincere? If I were a Christian, and I believed I could talk to an omnipotent being who had the ability to avert even a single person's eternal damnation, I wouldn't be off my knees.

After all, if God can say 'no', he can say 'yes', right?

sonny1293 · Apr 20, 2013

Romans 10:9-10 says that "if you confess with your mouth Jesu Christ is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For it is with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." And then in Hebrews 9:27 says "And it is appointed to men to die once, but after this the judgement." If your loved ones die before making a confession of faith in Christ, it is pointless to pray for their soul. For Revelations 20:15 says "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Can someone pray your way into heaven?

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