Can someone guide me through the steps!

[Lillen]

I need help to quit drinking beer. I am one of those Homer kind of guys without kids and the stomach. I love guzzling beer.

I only drink the weakest kind of beer that they sell in the grosery stores here in sweden, - 2.8%. But it is often i do it. I never mix beer with pills i get prescribed. I dont get drunk and have bad manners it is not that that bothers me, I wouldn't say i get drunk at all, rather softly intoxicated. - But it is often.

I don't have the book, so i was wondering if someone can tell me what 12step program is?

It is a habit rather then an addiction i think!? I do it because i can't find anything else to do with my days off or sparetime!

And a question around 12 step program... When am i done with them? i mean sometimes when i meet people from AA or NA the 12 step program becomes an inconvinient behaviour, they cannot say, "hay i am free, i'm done with the twelve steps and now i can move on to something else" they are still on the 12 step program. or am i wrong? I guess you can see it as a communion or church. If not they need to work on step 13 as a bridge over to a church or communion!

 

[TigerKanga]

The following pertains to alcoholics.

If you do it you don't feel compelled to drink alcohol. If you don't do it you usually end up drinking alcohol and it wrecks your life in any number of ways.

 

[madison1101]

The reason you see 12 Step people still involved in the program is because of the 12th step itself. It says, "Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we carried the message of recovery to the still suffering alcoholic." We attend long after we stop drinking to make sure that AA is there for the next person coming in. We can't keep our sobriety, unless we give the program away to the newer person.

You can read about AA and the books, "Alcoholics Anonymous," as well as the "12 Steps and 12 Traditions" at www.aa.org

The best thing would be to attend an AA meeting, actually go to about six of them, and find a sponsor, who can guide you through the steps.

God bless.
Trish

 

[Lillen]

Am i an alchoholic, if i drink to get softly intoxicated and because i got nothing else to do?

Three days sober...

 

[madison1101]

Am i an alchoholic, if i drink to get softly intoxicated and because i got nothing else to do?

Three days sober...

Only you can decide if you are an alcoholic. Intoxicated is drunk, no matter how you describe it. For this alcoholic, being a little drunk is like being a little pregnant. I cannot handle life with one drink in me.

Read the AA Big Book at the AA website I gave you. The Doctor's Opinion is a great place to start.

Trish

 

[Lillen]

I didn't find any text on that link. I read some of the criterias, but my life was in chaos even before I started to drink, I have had severe sleepingproblems ever since my Father died, making it impossible to accoplish school even at junior high. There was a time in the biggining of my twenties, when i only overslept one day a week, and were able to complete highschool and some college level courses at adult age (In sweden we have something called Komvux, Adult Municpality School). But i fell into old sleeping habits and a chaotic living even though drinking wasn't a problem. Now if we should trust in the scientifical studies around alcoholism my father was a periodic alcoholic, that means that i should have it in my genes. Otherways to see it as a family curse and so on are available.

In the end I guess i was frightened by AA as they see alcoholism as a disease. - Outcast, poor, afflicted, yes!- But not a disease!

And to add, i look at alcoholism in contrast to drunkards, drunkards never attend to AA, as they see the brewerage, alcoholic drinks as 'their' drink and usually hides it so well noone would argue that he needs help. To explain clearer, drunkards are wicked and wicked people are not afflicted by the wicked one, rather supported by him, Alcoholism on the other hand is not what i call wicked, since they usually are outcasts, poor, naked, ashamed, burden with guilt and afflicted. Jesus hung out with latter kind of people!

 

[Lillen]

Ok i read some of it, and I think i gonna try stay sober with the help of freinds and Jesus rather then AA. Wóuld you Trish like to be my freind?

 

[madison1101]

Ok i read some of it, and I think i gonna try stay sober with the help of freinds and Jesus rather then AA. Wóuld you Trish like to be my freind?

Lillen,
I would be honored to be your friend.

I will share a little bit about the disease concept of AA. It is not excuse making, but rather solutioin finding. Alcoholism effects the mind and body. There is a genetic factor to it. It is listed in the psychiatrists' manual called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, 4th Edition Revised.

Doctors and therapists say it fits the qualifications of a disease in that it is progressive. That means unless a person stops drinking, they will get worse rather than better. It is deadly. It can kill a person, either slowly, by destroying the brain and liver, or rapidly, like in a car accident. It can be arrested, like cancer, if a person is totally abstinent.

The solution in AA is the 12 steps. They are spiritual, and can help a person find freedom from the twisted thinking that goes with alcoholism. Also, they help a person stop being ashamed, and start living productively.

I hope this makes sense.

Trish

 

[Lillen]

I don't share doctors views. You can never convince me that you suffer from a illnes or disease. I am aware of DSMIV and DSMV. These are patented personalities that psychiatrist use to stimulate creativness, there is another system called ICD10 that trains the preson in survival skills, or so to see partisans.
Parahaps the reason why i don't want to see me as a drinking person as ill and thus also you, is because it is tabu to be ill here in sweden. You can even be taken away your freedom without being convicted for a crime or been in a trial under the permiss that the doctor sees you as ill.

Personally i have another term for your condition, parahaps it is synonmous with ill - I rather see you as afflicted. And the bible has alot of promises for people being afflicted:

Job 34:28
So that they caused the cry of the poor to come to Him;For He hears the cry of the afflicted.

Psalm 82:3
Defend the poor and fatherless;Do justice to the afflicted and needy

Psalm 119:71
It is good for me that I have been afflicted,That I may learn Your statutes

Psalm 140:12
I know that the LORD will maintainThe cause of the afflicted, And justice for the poor

Proverbs 22:22
Do not rob the poor because he is poor, Nor oppress the afflicted at the gate;

Proverbs 31:5
Lest they drink and forget the law, And pervert the justice of all the afflicted.

Isaiah 54:10-12 (New King James Version)

10 For the mountains shall depart
And the hills be removed,
But My kindness shall not depart from you,
Nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,”
Says the LORD, who has mercy on you.
11 “ O you afflicted one,
Tossed with tempest, and not comforted,
Behold, I will lay your stones with colorful gems,
And lay your foundations with sapphires.
12 I will make your pinnacles of rubies,
Your gates of crystal,
And all your walls of precious stones.

2 Corinthians 1:6
Now if we are afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effective for enduring the same sufferings which we also suffer. Or if we are comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation

And also, i read the netiquett on these forums, that we should not try to sound like an expert. Now my grandmothers partner has a Ph. d in psychology at umeå universitet, he disputed in memory and wrote an essey on how we get a clue. He is now a scientist at Luleå Technical University researching artificiall intelligence and how to simulate human behaviour in robots.

The reason why i might try to sound like an expert, is because i have been his client wihtout knowing it for 24 years. And i apologize for this, since psychology or psychiatry is not my proffession. But still i have learnt alot from him by being his labrat! I been raised with therapeutic instruments applied on me since i was three. It is hard trying to avoid sounding like expert when all your life is based upon psychological instruments. In the end it's just I who look silly by doing it.

 

[madison1101]

I don't share doctors views. You can never convince me that you suffer from a illnes or disease. I am aware of DSMIV and DSMV. These are patented personalities that psychiatrist use to stimulate creativness, there is another system called ICD10 that trains the preson in survival skills, or so to see partisans.
Parahaps the reason why i don't want to see me as a drinking person as ill and thus also you, is because it is tabu to be ill here in sweden. You can even be taken away your freedom without being convicted for a crime or been in a trial under the permiss that the doctor sees you as ill.

Personally i have another term for your condition, parahaps it is synonmous with ill - I rather see you as afflicted. And the bible has alot of promises for people being afflicted:

Job 34:28
So that they caused the cry of the poor to come to Him;For He hears the cry of the afflicted.

Psalm 82:3
Defend the poor and fatherless;Do justice to the afflicted and needy

Psalm 119:71
It is good for me that I have been afflicted,That I may learn Your statutes

Psalm 140:12
I know that the LORD will maintainThe cause of the afflicted, And justice for the poor

Proverbs 22:22
Do not rob the poor because he is poor, Nor oppress the afflicted at the gate;

Proverbs 31:5
Lest they drink and forget the law, And pervert the justice of all the afflicted.

Isaiah 54:10-12 (New King James Version)

10 For the mountains shall depart
And the hills be removed,
But My kindness shall not depart from you,
Nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,”
Says the LORD, who has mercy on you.
11 “ O you afflicted one,
Tossed with tempest, and not comforted,
Behold, I will lay your stones with colorful gems,
And lay your foundations with sapphires.
12 I will make your pinnacles of rubies,
Your gates of crystal,
And all your walls of precious stones.

2 Corinthians 1:6
Now if we are afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effective for enduring the same sufferings which we also suffer. Or if we are comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation

And also, i read the netiquett on these forums, that we should not try to sound like an expert. Now my grandmothers partner has a Ph. d in psychology at umeå universitet, he disputed in memory and wrote an essey on how we get a clue. He is now a scientist at Luleå Technical University researching artificiall intelligence and how to simulate human behaviour in robots.

The reason why i might try to sound like an expert, is because i have been his client wihtout knowing it for 24 years. And i apologize for this, since psychology or psychiatry is not my proffession. But still i have learnt alot from him by being his labrat! I been raised with therapeutic instruments applied on me since i was three. It is hard trying to avoid sounding like expert when all your life is based upon psychological instruments. In the end it's just I who look silly by doing it.

No need to worry about changing my mind. I have a Masters in Social Work and am licensed to practice psychotherapy here in the US. I have worked in rehabs and psychiatric hospitals. If alcoholism is not a disease, then a person could not get their medical insurance to pay for the treatment of it. I did extensive research in the field of alcoholism in women during my graduate studies, and am very comfortable saying it is a disease. I also am bipolar, so I have a dual diagnosis here. My bipolar disorder is not a personality issue, but a serious mental illness, which without medicine, I would not be stable.

I have also been in a psychiatric facility for my bipolar disorder, and then an alcohol rehab for treatment of my alcoholism. I needed to be there for therapy and groupo work for 12 days. It was not a vacation, but treatment for the disease of alcoholism.

 

[Chaplain David]

Ok i read some of it, and I think i gonna try stay sober with the help of freinds and Jesus rather then AA. Wóuld you Trish like to be my freind?

Friends and Jesus will help but sometimes Jesus wants us to do other things too like in my case, I got sober in Alcoholics Anonymous. It's no different than going to the doctor or dentist. One of the reasons God created us was to help each other and the various good helping professions and organizations are God given as well IMO. I've been sober a while now and my life has gotten so much better.

Here is a Swedish link for AA. And by the way, if you want to talk about the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous just pm me and I'll do my best to give you some info.

Alla som har en önskan att [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]a dricka är välkomna till AA- AA site

 

[Lillen]

First in this post, I need to say that i am in very hurry to get help. I haven't been drinking for eight days, and now i feel a incredible "Thirst" for beer. In about 40 min the local gas-store opens and they sell beer. Talk to me! I try to rebuke the wicked one from tempting me to drink again. But i need some guidance.


And to your post sacredot. I feel incovinent with AA because they see alchoholism as a disease. When thinking about quitting drinking, i do not believe that their model will work for me even though it has worked for others. Afflicted, yes! needy, yes! under a generation curse (The curse of the law promise curse upto third and forth generation) Yes! But not a disease. And thats my problem with AA, I don't see you as ill, i see you as something mentinoned above and i when i wish to be treated against my "thirst" for beer, i do not want to be treated as ill.

Now back to my call for help, among people i am anonoumys wiht (Ironically), I guess i am abstinent after alcohol and now I really need guidance away from this thirst. Someone who can talk sense to me.

The problem with my drinking habits is that i do not have any close ones such as children that feels insecure when their parants are intoxicated. I remeber when my father was drunk before his death, when i still was a child, even though he only watched television while being drunk, i felt insecurity.

Now i do not have any close ones that I hurt when i drink. So i lack motivation to stop drinking. I only do it for myself rather then for my beloved ones...
Another problem is that thanks to the medications and treatement i am on, I have trubble feeling emotion (call it spiritual lobotmation or whatever!!?), and alchohol makes me feel sentimental and happy.

But i recognize abstinence, and thats a factor or an attribute of being what AA call an alcoholic.

Talk sense to be please

Everyone on my fathers side were or is an alcoholic. My father died when his liver stopped working when i was eleven, and my grandmother always drank wine, my grandfather drank vodka or homebrewed booze, my uncle drank alot of beer and now have heart problems.

Just typing this on a machine makes me rethink.. The abstience is gone by now after typing the the above before adding this to my post...




And to add, (this is the third time i add something to this message, just so it I wont flood the thread). I have had a psychologist in my family, I really do not want to go to a therapist because I don't trust in them. Parhaps a preist, but not a psychologists, because i only have bad experiences of them. Such as a mad man wanting to turn me to a cyborg (NO!!! i am not joking). My grandmothers partner is a scientist with LTU (Luleå Tekniska Universitet), and his feild is artificiall intelligence and human behaviour in robotics. I stopped taking him serious when he said that the goal with his studies was to give human race eternal life by copying their soul into a machine!!!

 

[madison1101]

First in this post, I need to say that i am in very hurry to get help. I haven't been drinking for eight days, and now i feel a incredible "Thirst" for beer. In about 40 min the local gas-store opens and they sell beer. Talk to me! I try to rebuke the wicked one from tempting me to drink again. But i need some guidance.


And to your post sacredot. I feel incovinent with AA because they see alchoholism as a disease. When thinking about quitting drinking, i do not believe that their model will work for me even though it has worked for others. Afflicted, yes! needy, yes! under a generation curse (The curse of the law promise curse upto third and forth generation) Yes! But not a disease. And thats my problem with AA, I don't see you as ill, i see you as something mentinoned above and i when i wish to be treated against my "thirst" for beer, i do not want to be treated as ill.

Now back to my call for help, among people i am anonoumys wiht (Ironically), I guess i am abstinent after alcohol and now I really need guidance away from this thirst. Someone who can talk sense to me.

The problem with my drinking habits is that i do not have any close ones such as children that feels insecure when their parants are intoxicated. I remeber when my father was drunk before his death, when i still was a child, even though he only watched television while being drunk, i felt insecurity.

Now i do not have any close ones that I hurt when i drink. So i lack motivation to stop drinking. I only do it for myself rather then for my beloved ones...
Another problem is that thanks to the medications and treatement i am on, I have trubble feeling emotion (call it spiritual lobotmation or whatever!!?), and alchohol makes me feel sentimental and happy.

But i recognize abstinence, and thats a factor or an attribute of being what AA call an alcoholic.

Talk sense to be please

Everyone on my fathers side were or is an alcoholic. My father died when his liver stopped working when i was eleven, and my grandmother always drank wine, my grandfather drank vodka or homebrewed booze, my uncle drank alot of beer and now have heart problems.

Just typing this on a machine makes me rethink.. The abstience is gone by now after typing the the above before adding this to my post...




And to add, (this is the third time i add something to this message, just so it I wont flood the thread). I have had a psychologist in my family, I really do not want to go to a therapist because I don't trust in them. Parhaps a preist, but not a psychologists, because i only have bad experiences of them. Such as a mad man wanting to turn me to a cyborg (NO!!! i am not joking). My grandmothers partner is a scientist with LTU (Luleå Tekniska Universitet), and his feild is artificiall intelligence and human behaviour in robotics. I stopped taking him serious when he said that the goal with his studies was to give human race eternal life by copying the soul into a machine!!!

I have some questions for you to think about. What is the difference between an affliction and a disease? I do not see any difference in my understanding of both words, but I have not looked up the definition of both to get into the semantics. Alcoholism has a genetic basis for many of us. Once afflicted, there are a variety of ways to deal with it. Here in the US, there are a variety of programs. We have Women for Sobriety, Celebrate Recovery, and Alcoholics Anonymous as the top three I can think of.

In order to participate in Alcoholics Anonymous, you DO NOT HAVE TO BELIEVE IT IS A DISEASE. The ONLY requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking. PERIOD. Going to meetings can provide you with education on the 12 Steps, and how to work them, and give you the social support in real time that we here cannot provide. We get phone numbers of people in AA, and call each other between meetings. We get together and socialize with each other between meetings. We go out for coffee, and dinner, and some go dancing and bowling, or have sober dances to attend.

Given that you do not have to believe in the disease concept, and that the only requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking, why won't you give attendance at meetings a chance? You have nothihng to lose, and everything to gain. The 12 Steps say nothing about the disease concept.

Alcoholics Anonymous is a three-fold program for alcoholism. It deals with the spiritual, physical and mental issues that face alcoholics. Physically, you stop drinking and find alternatives to drinking. Mentally, you clean house and make amends for wrongs done. Spiritually, you find God's strength to resist the drink, and you learn to help others who need help getting sober. We cannot keep our recovery if we do not give away the program to those who need help stopping drinking.

I have the disease of alcoholism. You have the afflction of alcoholism. Try some AA meetings and learn how to stop.

Trish R.

 

[Lillen]

Good point...

 

[Lillen]

My sleeping pills has stopped working... I haven't slept all night! I don't have money on my cellphone to call that number on that link sacerdote gave me...

I wish to quit drinking for we should live a life in soberty according to Paul.

 

[Lillen]

And also, i want to change the topics names to, "what are the twelve diffrent steps"... thats what i meant!


To add four hours after i wrote the above line... They put me on antabus... the thing about antabus is that you should drink alittle in the biggining to connect the ill feelings with alcohol i think! But then again it is just what I suspect of the little knowledge i have in psychology...

 

[madison1101]

And also, i want to change the topics names to, "what are the twelve diffrent steps"... thats what i meant!


To add four hours after i wrote the above line... They put me on antabus... the thing about antabus is that you should drink alittle in the biggining to connect the ill feelings with alcohol i think! But then again it is just what I suspect of the little knowledge i have in psychology...

Ask the prescribing doctor about whether you should drink or not in the beginning. That is the person who can tell you the answer to that.

Read about the 12 different steps at www.aa.org

You can also read the Big Book, called Alcoholics Anonymous. There you can learn the history of the program, and read a Doctor's Opinion on alcoholism.

In Chapter 5 of the AA Big Book, it gives the 12 steps and starts to explain how they are worked. That chapter is called, How It Works.

You can also learn more about AA at that website. I do not know if they would have a link to help you find meetings, but it is worth investigating. I can find meetings here through a link, but am not sure about international links.

 

[Chaplain David]

And also, i want to change the topics names to, "what are the twelve diffrent steps"... thats what i meant!

To add four hours after i wrote the above line... They put me on antabus... the thing about antabus is that you should drink alittle in the biggining to connect the ill feelings with alcohol i think! But then again it is just what I suspect of the little knowledge i have in psychology...

Lillen,

The disease concept or model of alcoholism is true in my opinion but I'm a counselor and have worked with it. In my opinion, what's most important for every alcoholic is connecting with something that helps them stay sober because alcohol is a problem in their lives. I would not (and I'm speaking for myself only), drink a little with antabuse and I took antabuse for my first month in the beginning. In fact, we were not told to drink alcohol, we were told, do not drink alcohol with it or it will make you very sick.

Now for personal recovery, what has worked best for me over the long haul is AA, going to AA meetings, getting a sponsor, and working the twelve steps.

Do you have any AA meetings in your area that you can go to?

Now here are the twelve steps of alcoholics anonymous that we learn about in AA and learn how to apply to our lives. They've saved my life. But first and foremost it was turning my will and my life over to the care of God, as I understood Him (that was before I was a Christian), and now that I am a Christian it is using Jesus Christ as my savior along with the 12 steps.

THE TWELVE STEPS OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS​

​

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.​

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.​

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.​

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.​

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.​

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.​

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.​

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.​

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.​

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.​

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.​

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.​

 

[Chaplain David]

Lillen,

On the Sweden AA site Alla som har en önskan att [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]a dricka är välkomna till AA- AA site I noticed that they have both contact telephone numbers and also an email you can write to:
service@aa.se

Also, on the main page over on the right there is a section with three online groups "Online Grupper" The site is very good and has a lot of information.

 

[Chaplain David]

These are the 12 steps in Swedish:

Anonyma Alkoholister arbetar efter följande tolvpunktsprogram:

1. Vi erkände att vi var maktlösa inför alkoholen - att våra liv hade blivit ohanterliga.
2. Vi kom till tro att en kraft större än vår egen kunde återge oss vårt förstånd.
3. Vi beslöt att lägga vår vilja och vårt liv i händerna på Gud, sådan vi uppfattade Honom.
4. Vi företog en genomgripande och oförskräckt moralisk självrannsakan.
5. Vi erkände inför Gud, oss själva och en medmänniska alla våra fel och brister och innebörden av dem.
6. Vi var helt och hållet beredda att låta Gud avlägsna alla dessa karaktärsfel.
7. Vi bad ödmjukt Honom att avlägsna våra brister.
8. Vi gjorde upp en förteckning över alla de personer vi hade gjort illa och var beredda att gottgöra dem alla.
9. Vi gottgjorde alla dessa människor, så långt det var oss möjligt, utan att skada dem eller andra.
10. Vi fortsatte vår självrannsakan och erkände genast när vi hade fel.
11. Vi sökte genom bön och meditation fördjupa vår medvetna kontakt med Gud - sådan vi uppfattade Honom - varvid vi endast bad om insikt om Hans vilja med oss och styrka att utföra den.
12. När vi, som resultat av dessa steg, själva hade haft ett inre uppvaknande försökte vi föra detta budskap vidare till andra alkoholister och tillämpa dessa principer i alla våra angelägenheter.

Instruktionerna hur man gör dessa steg finns i boken Anonyma Alkoholister, även kallad "Stora Boken".