Can someone explain what the rapture is please?

[Almighty's humble servant]

The rapture is a coined (that is, a non-Biblical) term used to describe the event detailed in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


The debate you see all the time is not about whether or not this will happen, but about when it will happen.

Some people think it will happen before a coming time of tribulation. This is called the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine. And people who believe it are called pre-tribbers.

Some people think it will happen at the middle of this period. This is called the mid-tribulation rapture doctrine. And people who believe it are called mid-tribbers.

Some people think it will happed near the end of this period, just before God pours out his wrath on the earth. This is called the pre-wath rapture doctrine. And people who belive it are called pre-wrathers.

Some people think it will happen after this period is over. This is called the post tribulation rapture doctrine. And people who believe it are called post tribbers.

The thing you need to know is that the Bible simply does not say when it will happen. All these positions are based upon interpretations of the meanings of things the Bible says.

In spite of all the debate you see, the only ones that are denying scripture are those who say it will not happen. Everyone else is simply interpreting scripture.

Pardon me brother BW, but you have mixed two beliefs into one.

I don't know if it was purposeful or not, so I'll simply offer a correction.

Pretrib thinks that we are caught away before the antichrist is come, before the mortal wound to the nations(beasts) is struck and before the new temple is desolated.

Mid trib thinks we are caught away before the a/c begins to persecute the believers and sends his beasts out to destroy them. But most KNOW they will see signs of tribulation, but won't be here when the hunt is on.

Post tribbers and prewrathers are EXACTLY the same. They KNOW we will face persecution, they KNOW we will see the mortal wound struck, they KNOW we will see the signs of tribulation, and they KNOW they will be delivered through the tribulation, imprisoned or even killed for their testimony that Jesus is THE ONE and ONLY Christ. These post tribbers/prewrathers KNOW that when Jesus is come again, He will destroy all that man has created(wrath), He will cast satan and his f/p, a/c and their followers into the fiery pits of hell(wrath) and He will create the new paradise that will be this earth for 1000 years.

 

[zeke37]

Hi guys

Watching TBN a week ago I came across a phrase I've heard a couple of times in passing, something about "The rapture".

I have no idea what it means and a google search turns up just blog posts of people ranting. Can someone explain, in simple english, what it is please?

Cheers

FB

the word "rapture" has become a word that is used to describe the event of Christ gathering believers to Him.

the debate is WHEN this will happen...
there are 4 main camps of thought

simplistically, they are....

pre tribulation = (before all the end time bad stuff)
mid tribulation = (in the middle of the end time bad stuff)
post tribulation = (after the end time bad stuff)
covenant = (Christ's 2nd Coming is not literally in the future, it happens to each individual believer at his/her conversion)

pre trib...some believe that Jesus Comes 2 future times,
one to remove the church from the earth before all the bad end time stuff,
and then He returns again (with them in tow) at the end of the bad end time stuff....

mid trib...much the same as pre trib but they believe that some of the end time events happen
and then they are removed before stuff hits the fan, by Jesus,
and then they return with Him at the end of the tribulation for the actual 2nd Coming

post...IMO the correct view...the church stays on earth and is tempted/tested during the end time bad stuff.
they are not removed from the earth.
they are gathered to Jesus when He comes with the dead,
at the end of the end time bad stuff...

covenant...there are a couple people here on this sub-forum that do not think that Christ will come again in the future,
but that it is a spiritual kind of teaching meaning that He comes individually for each individual believer

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

the word "rapture" has become a word that is used to describe the event of Christ gathering believers to Him.

the debate is WHEN this will happen...
there are 4 main camps of thought

simplistically, they are....

pre tribulation = (before all the end time bad stuff)
mid tribulation = (in the middle of the end time bad stuff)
post tribulation = (after the end time bad stuff)
covenant = (Christ's 2nd Coming is not literally in the future, it happens to each individual believer at his/her conversion)

pre trib...some believe that Jesus Comes 2 future times,
one to remove the church from the earth before all the bad end time stuff,
and then He returns again (with them in tow) at the end of the bad end time stuff....

mid trib...much the same as pre trib but they believe that some of the end time events happen
and then they are removed before stuff hits the fan, by Jesus,
and then they return with Him at the end of the tribulation for the actual 2nd Coming

post...IMO the correct view...the church stays on earth and is tempted/tested during the end time bad stuff.
they are not removed from the earth.
they are gathered to Jesus when He comes with the dead,
at the end of the end time bad stuff...

covenant...there are a couple people here on this sub-forum that do not think that Christ will come again in the future,
but that it is a spiritual kind of teaching meaning that He comes individually for each individual believer

Really good and accurate explaination brother Zeke!

 

[Truth Files]

Response to the OP:

Briefly .....

The Lord's "harpazo" action to "snatch" away the church of today [both those asleep and those living at the time] is a Biblical fact .... totally supported by all related scriptures and evidenced by "those who dwell in heaven" presented in Revelation

These who are around the throne and with the Lord during the tribulation period on the earth are the immortal church .... they are noted several times as Revelation's narrative unfolds .... look for them

This is a fairly complex study, but when all related scripture is included the case for the pre-tribulation immortalization of the church is an air tight fact

 

[Biblewriter]

Pardon me brother BW, but you have mixed two beliefs into one.

I don't know if it was purposeful or not, so I'll simply offer a correction.

Pretrib thinks that we are caught away before the antichrist is come, before the mortal wound to the nations(beasts) is struck and before the new temple is desolated.

Mid trib thinks we are caught away before the a/c begins to persecute the believers and sends his beasts out to destroy them. But most KNOW they will see signs of tribulation, but won't be here when the hunt is on.

Post tribbers and prewrathers are EXACTLY the same. They KNOW we will face persecution, they KNOW we will see the mortal wound struck, they KNOW we will see the signs of tribulation, and they KNOW they will be delivered through the tribulation, imprisoned or even killed for their testimony that Jesus is THE ONE and ONLY Christ. These post tribbers/prewrathers KNOW that when Jesus is come again, He will destroy all that man has created(wrath), He will cast satan and his f/p, a/c and their followers into the fiery pits of hell(wrath) and He will create the new paradise that will be this earth for 1000 years.

You are not correct that post tribbers and pre-wrathers are the same.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

You are not correct that post tribbers and pre-wrathers are the same.

OK, so i am not up to date on my watercooler lingo. i am, however, informed that MOST pretribber believe the ALmighty God when He reminds us that we are not appointed His Wrath.

I just want to remind our brother who has written the OP that we are not appointed wrath, but WE MUST ENDURE TRIBULATION.

So after a/c rules this physical earth, after he sends his beasts(nations) armies out to round up the Christians, Muslims, and Jews who have refused his mark,

and ONLY after, will JESUS RETURN AND catch us away, just before the wrath. That is at least according to JESUS HIMSELF!

Post trib, pre wrath.

 

[Truth Files]

Comment:

The Lord's wrath will begin at the onset of the coming tribulation period which will last for 2550 days according to Daniel's time lapse for the period .... not at the end of it

And Revelation provides the evidence of His pre-tribulation call for the church of today

Those who dwell in heaven just before, during the period, and who return to the earth with Him to engage at Armageddon

The trials and tribulations of this short trouble filled life are not the same thing as the Lord's coming wrath of the tribulation against a world of unbelief .... much different .... like the judgment of the flood

He has said "you must be ready" ..... there will be no warning .... no one will expect His visitation or able to know the time [date] [1Thessalonians 5:1-9; Matthew 24:36-39; 25:1-13; Acts 1:6]

At a time that you think not .... the "thief" will come

Surely this cannot mean at the end of the tribulation period for all on the earth will be in the wash of His unprecedented judgments and will know that they are targets for His unmitigated wrath ... to say that these would not be aware their experience of judgment and unaware that anything was impending as the scriptures clearly describe is absurd

In fact those who become believers during the tribulation period will be able to predict to the very day of the Lord's appearance on the earth at the end of His tribulation of those days .... there are a number of events that fit Daniel's time lapse of the period which will be evident to them .... like the abomination of desolation that will be set upon the temple mount, the duration of the presence of His two prophets, and the 42 month rule of satan's beast

There is a time [dating] one cannot know .... and a time [dating] that one will be able to predict in advance .... obviously not the same, because if the same, the Lord's word would be in contradiction

So those who profess christianity must be ready as He has required ..... it cound happen before this day is over .... and then [Revelation 6:12-17]

Matthew 24:29-31 is not the same event as that of Revelation 6:12-17 and any who scrutinize both will be able to note the distinct differences

One at the beginning of His wrath ..... and the other at the end of it, both different settings with measurable time lapse between

Make certain that you are ready and not fence sitting .... much of professing christianity is in this mode to day and these will ge caught unaware [Mathew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19]

 

[Choose Wisely]

OK, so i am not up to date on my watercooler lingo. i am, however, informed that MOST pretribber believe the ALmighty God when He reminds us that we are not appointed His Wrath.

I just want to remind our brother who has written the OP that we are not appointed wrath, but WE MUST ENDURE TRIBULATION.

So after a/c rules this physical earth, after he sends his beasts(nations) armies out to round up the Christians, Muslims, and Jews who have refused his mark,

and ONLY after, will JESUS RETURN AND catch us away, just before the wrath. That is at least according to JESUS HIMSELF!

Post trib, pre wrath.

Actually, in truth the post trib rapture and pre wrath rapture are the same. However, most people that believe in a pre tribulation rapture don't realize that the wrath of God occurrs at the 7th seal. They think the wrath of God occurs during the Tribulation. Because of this misunderstanding most people that say pre wrath mean before the 3.5 year great tribulation.

However, in truth you are correct in saying pre wrath and post trib are the same.

 

[papaJP]

Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him.

BGT Genesis 5:24 καὶ εὐηρέστησεν Ενωχ τῷ θεῷ καὶ οὐχ ηὑρίσκετο ὅτι μετέθηκεν αὐτὸν ὁ θεός​

​

WTT Genesis 5:24 ​

åÇéÌÄúÀäÇìÌÅ֥êÀ çÂð֖åÉêÀ àÆúÎäÈÍàÁìÉäÄ֑éí åÀàÅéðÆ֕ðÌåÌ ëÌÄÍéÎìÈ÷Ç֥ç àÉú֖åÉ àÁìÉäÄÍéíÓ ô
​

By faith Enoch was taken so that he did not experience death; and "he was not found, because God had taken him." For it was attested before he was taken away that "he had pleased God."

BGT Hebrews 11:5 Ðίóôåé Ἑíὼ÷ ìåôåôέèç ôïῦ ìὴ ἰäåῖí èάíáôïí, êáὶ ïὐ÷ çὑñίóêåôï äéόôé ìåôέèçêåí áὐôὸí ὁ èåόò. ðñὸ ãὰñ ôῆò ìåôáèέóåùò ìåìáñôύñçôáé åὐáñåóôçêέíáé ôῷ èåῷ·​

BYZ Hebrews 11:5​

Ðίóôåé Ἑíὼ÷ ìåôåôέèç ôïῦ ìὴ ἰäåῖí èάíáôïí, êáὶ ïὐ÷ åὑñίóêåôï, äéόôé ìåôέèçêåí áὐôὸí ὁ èåόò· ðñὸ ãὰñ ôῆò ìåôáèέóåùò áὐôïῦ ìåìáñôύñçôáé åὐçñåóôçêέíáé ôῷ èåῷ·​

I find no mention of a word that equates to rapture in the above.

To jump to a conclusion and to state a fact from a translation that has been proven to contain errors is somewhat deceiving.

The original languages do not contain any words that translate to rapture or anything that would indicate this word. The taking of Enoch was an action of God and to use the word rapture to describe it is a leap and not good exergesis.​

 

[Truth Files]

The Greek is "Harpazo" in the following verses:

[1Thessalonians 4:17; Revelation 12:5]

Make sure that you look up the meaning of the Greek "harpazo"

"Rapture" is a Latin translation which is not the original Greek of the N.T

As the Lord was "caught up" so will His pre-tribulation church be the same .... at His coming [1Corinthians 15:22-23] .... for today's church of both those asleep and those living at the time [1Thessalonians 4:13-18] .... just before He brings His wrath upon an unbelieving intransigent world [Revelation 3:10]

This is how it will come, suddenly and with no warning [Revelation 6:12-17] .... 2550 days of it

The this [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46]

 

[zeke37]

and yet another personality of Jen comes forth....so obvious....

 

[zeke37]

Really good and accurate explaination brother Zeke!

thank you sir

as you know, the end time bad stuff is not God's wrath...
it is Satan's wrath.....

God's wrath comes after Satan's wrath....

and as you know, Rev is not linear...
the visions (plural) take multiple looks at the same events....

there is only one future Coming of the Lord Christ...
and that happens when the dead believers are raised to life here again,
as is their promise multiple times in scripture...

from both OT and NT prophesy, we can determine whether the dead
are raised pre tribulation, mid or post....

and it just cannot be pre trib/mid trib

the dead are raised post trib




no pre or mid tribber has ever been able to explain to me (when asked)
how their pre trib/mid trib belief(s) works in light of this truth...

for even in pre trib's favorite verses, in 1Thes4:13-18,
the gathering to Christ happens after the dead are raised....




now who here believes that the raising of the dead believers happens pre trib????

anyone at all????

 

[Lisa*Lisa]

YouTube - Rapture Dream.wmv

 

[Truth Files]

"as you know, the end time bad stuff is not God's wrath...
it is Satan's wrath"

>Not true ... it is the Lord who will draw satan into the game of His wrath [Psalms 2; Ezekiel 38; Micah 5:15; 2Thessalonians 2-12; Revelation 6:12-17; 11:18; 12:12; 14:7; 17:17] .... He will give over the unbelieving earth dwellers to the devil .... it is the Lord who will do this thing



"now who here believes that the raising of the dead believers happens pre trib????"

anyone at all????"

>I do .... it is a Biblical truth .... a fact of the prophetic scriptures

>Make sure you are ready for this event ..... it could happen before this day is over [Matthew 25:1-13]

>Do not be found on the wrong side of the door [Revelation 3:15-20]

>And do not be deceived by the devil's ranting that there is no pre-tribulation "harpazo" to immortalize the church of today .... he hates the idea of human immortality and he wants to draw you into the coming tribulation period where he will seek to destroy those who will become deceived by his beast from the abyss [Revelation 9:1; 9:11; 11:7; 12:12; 13:1-5; 14:9-11; 17:8-18]

>The Lord has said [Matthew 24:4-5] .... these of this kind are on the earth in mass today ..... do not be deceived by them

 

[zeke37]

 

[zeke37]

"as you know, the end time bad stuff is not God's wrath...
it is Satan's wrath"

>Not true ... it is the Lord who will draw satan into the game of His wrath [Psalms 2; Ezekiel 38; Micah 5:15; 2Thessalonians 2-12; Revelation 6:12-17; 11:18; 12:12; 14:7; 17:17] .... He will give over the unbelieving earth dwellers to the devil .... it is the Lord who will do this thing

God allows all things, including all the evil in the world

that does not change the fact that Satan has wrath...see Rev12
Satan's wrath comes before God's wrath.

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

as i said, Satan has wrath when he comes here for his short season.
he even goes after Christians in the last verse....proving that the "church" is not "raptured" pre or mid trib

God has wrath too...much worse....see Rev16

1And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

"now who here believes that the raising of the dead believers happens pre trib????"

anyone at all????"

>I do .... it is a Biblical truth .... a fact of the prophetic scriptures

that is a lie

do you really think that the believing dead are raised to life on earth again (as is their promise) and walking around during the trib????

huh???

>Make sure you are ready for this event ..... it could happen before this day is over [Matthew 25:1-13]

that is another lie...signs....some are left

>Do not be found on the wrong side of the door [Revelation 3:15-20]

you either

>And do not be deceived by the devil's ranting that there is no pre-tribulation "harpazo" to immortalize the church of today ....

well, that is another lie....there is no pre trib rapture

he hates the idea of human immortality and he wants to draw you into the coming tribulation period where he will seek to destroy those who will become deceived by his beast from the abyss [Revelation 9:1; 9:11; 11:7; 12:12; 13:1-5; 14:9-11; 17:8-18]

unless you have died before the trib begins, all the church goes through it ALL.
Satan loves pre trib, because that group already believes the lie that Christ comes before Satan.

that way, when Satan does come first, the pre trib camp will prob. believe that he is Jesus,
since they believe Jesus comes first....

easy pickings...they do not listen to sound doctrine anyway...easy to fool

>The Lord has said [Matthew 24:4-5] .... these of this kind are on the earth in mass today ..... do not be deceived by them

the Lord said the same elsewhere....and so did Paul

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.




i answered your post,
now the OP asked that you not participate in this thread...
thank-you

 

[Truth Files]

"do you really think that the believing dead are raised to life on earth again (as is their promise) and walking around during the trib????

huh???"

>You need to read your Bible son

>Both those believers asleep and living just before the beginning of the Lord's coming time of wrath and tribulation will be "caught up" .... immortalized .... and with the Lord who will mitigate His wrath from heaven upon the earth .... these are seen dwelling in heaven [the state of immortality] during the tribulations on the earth as Revelation unfolds

>Revelation's unfolding presents this picture without a doubt

>The immortal church of today will then return to the earth with Him to engage at Armageddon

>If you cannot understand this clear teaching of the prophetic scriptures you have been duped .... deceived by the post-tribulation ruse

>Read your Bible and trash post-tribulation teaching by those like Dave MacPherson and his ranting

>This false teacher calls the truth of the Lord's intent to immortalize His church before He brings His wrath against an "unsuspecting" world a "lie" .... and he has to concoct a number of other interpretive corruptions to support his folly

This modern false teaching is nothing more than the corrupted perversion of the same in the early church .... it is just dressed up in a new package .... a number of professing "christian" movements have embraced this false teaching and they all carry the baggage of various proprietary replacement "kingdom now" theologies

>You had better find out just who is "lying" .... and why

>You say that satan's wrath comes before the Lord's wrath of the coming tribulation .... the scriptures tell otherwise [Revelation 6:12-17]

>It is the Lord who will use satan and the fallen angels to punish an intransigent unbelieving world of earth dwellers .... He will give them the devil because they have refused to believe the truth about Him [2Thessalonians 2:2-12; Psalms 2; Revelation 6:13; 8:10-11; 9:1; 9:11; 12:7-9; 12:12; 13:4; 17:16-18; 19:1-5]

>Then He will turn on satan and his minions and destroy them .... the Lord never loses the game .... all contenders against Him will burn, both the fallen angels and unbelieving humanity [Revelation 19; 20]

>There is only one explanation for your complete denial of this truth .... you have been deceived [or you are knowingly and deliberately attempting to deceive others] .... to deny that it is the Lord who will bring all of the judgments and woes of Revelation's unfolding is just plain nonsense