Can Someone Explain This To Me Please?

[ToBeLoved]

"Thou shall not kill" doens't involve "I shall not kill".
But you are right, we have a different point of view. That's okay, I see the story from a differen perspective.

That makes no sense.

I’m pretty sure Thou means the reader.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yet another point I wanted to make. Life is predicated on death by design. The whole life cycle is based upon predation. That does NOT seems like a design based in love. That seems like a design that was set in motion and then abandoned. I would not call predation murder, but it does sadden me that God was so big on sacrificing animals. We have the intellect to know why we are suffering...animals don't even have that. It's pitiful.

Then you get into original sin - Another concept that makes no sense to me. An apple, a snake, God asking "why are you hiding" when he obviously knew the answer since forever - and having that mistake persist throughout the entire human race. Hey, I ate NO forbidden fruit...why am I being forced to live through this indecipherable garbage?

It doesn’t make sense if you do not see God as Holy.

God asking them why they were hiding was so they would recognize that their own behavior had changed after sin. That their behavior was different before and now their behavior was different after.

Repentance is about our realizing our own sin. No one makes a change in behavior or action until they recognize that their is a problem with it. Adam and Eve also needed to realize that their would be changes because of their choice.

 

[Trimeresurus]

That makes no sense.

I’m pretty sure Thou means the reader.

We were talking about Jahweh. He has the right to kill.

If you create killers and tell them not to kill, this is what you get. The free will does not explain our cruel nature. So they just told everyone it was the devils fault in denial of their own nature. Someone has to be the bad guy.

 

[LastAttempt]

Sin is the result of an action. So saying God created sin is a superficial understanding.

You cannot have real love without free will and obviously given the commands Jesus left us with, Love is the secret sauce of God.

I don’t expect you to look that deep though.

Oh, ~sad face~ we were all doing so well having a productive discussion....until now. Nothing like seeking help and getting condescension. I was dreading when your type would decide to chime in. I knew you were coming, though. You always do.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Oh, ~sad face~ we were all doing so well having a productive discussion....until now. Nothing like seeking help and getting condescension. I was dreading when your type would decide to chime in. I knew you were coming, though. You always do.

Well I apologize. Let’s continue

 

[ToBeLoved]

We were talking about Jahweh. He has the right to kill.

If you create killers and tell them not to kill, this is what you get. The free will does not explain our cruel nature. So they just told everyone it was the devils fault in denial of their own nature. Someone has to be the bad guy.

Free will does explain our cruel nature. Many sins are committed against others. Some sin we commit against ourselves.

When people decide or make decisions that whatever is best for self, trumps or is more important than the basic rights of others their is disregard for others.

 

[Tayla]

If God is Love, I don’t feel it, I don’t see it, and believe me, I’m looking.

In my view, you have to see God where he is. When you look at evil, God is not there. When you look at goodness, justice, love, beauty, and etc; that is where God is. Ignore the other stuff -- it will pass someday.

 

[Tayla]

Keep in mind that God murdered entire cities for doing so poorly on the test he didn’t even wait until they died to send them to forever-hell

Just because someone dies doesn't imply they don't end up redeemed.

 

[Tayla]

I think it’s safe to say the vast majority of people who have lived and died here did NOT pass the test for one reason or another. After all, it’s easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle etc etc…

I don't think we can say what people did in their heart of hearts. Perhaps there are many invisible death bed conversions.

 

[Tayla]

the majority of people alive at the moment are not Christians.

It is beneficial to be a Christian. But for those who haven't heard the gospel, or haven't heard it expressed correctly, or who have mixed it up with the historical and present-day abuses of Christians; who can say what plan God has for them?

I think the key question is whether someone rejected the gospel when presented to them accurately with proof that it is true. I doubt many reject the true gospel; rather they reject a counterfeit gospel. But God will present the true gospel to them someday. People are only blamed by God when they clearly see God. (Romans 1:20)

 

[Serving Zion]

@LastAttempt - you'll be greatly relieved when you meet Jesus, I can tell by the way you are speaking. I meet so many people that have been hurt by the loveless words coming from people that call themselves Christian, but because they have their false beliefs it blinds them to the truth and no amount of reasonable speech can break through that barrier. I am sorry you have had that trouble.

It is hard for me too, because I meet lots of people who have been offended by such so-called Christianity (that is really the devil's religion: 1 Timothy 4:1-2), and then as soon as I mention the name of Jesus they think I am one of those - the antichrists, and they also put up their barrier against me: they have their beliefs about what they think Christianity is (that is, the religion of the antichrist) and it blinds them to the truth - they can't see me for who I am. But because the majority of Christians have marred the name of Christ, it's like a spell has been cast on them - the only way they can think of Christianity is as an evil thing (2 Peter 2:2).

I just see that this risk for you is developing through this thread. I want to advise that you will recognise the depth of meaning in Philippians 2:12 and Philippians 2:20-21. This means that your faith is between you and God, that you should give no other man the honour of thinking himself worthy to teach you (Matthew 23:8-12, Mark 10:42-44, 1 John 2:27).

Jesus said "God is spirit, and the one who worships God must worship in spirit and in truth". He also said that the world would recognise that we are His disciples by the love we have for one another. St. Paul observes that love rejoices with the truth and does not rejoice in injustice (1 Corinthians 13:6) .. and yet, what do the antichrist doctrines teach? They are teaching injustice, of course. This is their hypocrisy - their mind is so twisted and perverse that they somehow think it is justice that Jesus the righteous should have died on account of sinners (Matthew 23:35). They simply do not know love (1 John 4:7-8).

Jesus said many take the broad road leading to destruction and very few find the narrow gate leading to life, so be aware of this and remember that we have had 2,000 years of darkness already (John 12:35). Therefore you have as much authority as anyone does, to be justified by the scriptures (according to righteousness - Matthew 5:20).

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
2 a : morally right or justifiable

• a righteous decision

b : arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality

• righteous indignation

3 slang : genuine, excellent

20180501 : Definition of RIGHTEOUS

 

[LastAttempt]

I think the key question is whether someone rejected the gospel when presented to them accurately with proof that it is true.

But there is no proof that it is true, or we would all be less confused. What proof are you speaking of? How do I know if I am experiencing an authentic presentation of the gospel or not? How do we know the gospel says what we think it says? I'm so afraid all this might boil down to who receives inner revelation and who doesn't. Isn't it possible God just picks and chooses whom he makes himself "real" to, and he didn't pick me, so why even create me? I'm obviously a big mistake - a total metaphysical and spiritual failure.

People are only blamed by God when they clearly see God.

This I have never heard before. Please elaborate? From my studies, I've operated under the principle that, according to God, his creation is more than enough evidence of his existence and love. You don't need anything else. I have no problem with the existence part; I cannot see the love component. That puts me right back to the absent watchmaker: All-powerful, All-knowing, no longer involved with us.

I don't think we can say what people did in their heart of hearts. Perhaps there are many invisible death bed conversions.

True, we can't know for sure, but even allowing for that it strikes me as being a spoon of water amidst the entire ocean of created and condemned people. All those people who God created specifically for hell. He knows that's where they are going, and he creates them anyway.

I read the excerpt from Romans you posted. I remember it from a different translation but it still seems so very depressing.

 

[LastAttempt]

@LastAttempt - you'll be greatly relieved when you meet Jesus, I can tell by the way you are speaking.

Thank you so much for this response. I really feel deep down that Jesus is not really interested in meeting me. I'm on the big, wide road to hell and I can't find the tiny path to the light for a reason, probably. The reason being: I'm not meant to. I'm designed to fail. Not that I'm saying God is causing me to fail, but he knew I would, and he did this to me anyway.

I re-read all the scriptures you refer to, but, as usual, I have to read the same portions over and over and still it makes no sense to me. It's not that I don't understand the words, it's the idea behind it all that falls to pieces.

They simply do not know love (1 John 4:7-8)

Looks like I don't either.

Therefore you have as much authority as anyone does, to be justified by the scriptures (according to righteousness - Matthew 5:20).

Please explain, if you don't mind. I don't understand what you mean by authority or being justified by scripture.

This means that your faith is between you and God, that you should give no other man the honour of thinking himself worthy to teach you

Well, this is a downer too. I've had zero success finding someone patient and knowledgeable enough to help me understand things. I figured if I throw it all out where it can be seen by lots of people, maybe, if God loves me, he would use one of you out there to reach me. Maybe it was a stupid idea in the first place.

 

[Serving Zion]

Thank you so much for this response. I really feel deep down that Jesus is not really interested in meeting me. I'm on the big, wide road to hell and I can't find the tiny path to the light for a reason, probably. The reason being: I'm not meant to. I'm designed to fail. Not that I'm saying God is causing me to fail, but he knew I would, and he did this to me anyway.

You speak as though it's over, as though all hope is lost; but if that is what I had perceived when I addressed you I would have not expressed my hope toward you. Yet, your response to what I said does show that my optimism might have been misplaced (or at least a wee bit later than could have been optimal for success - Matthew 13:4, 1 Corinthians 15:33, Jeremiah 51:6-7).

I re-read all the scriptures you refer to, but, as usual, I have to read the same portions over and over and still it makes no sense to me. It's not that I don't understand the words, it's the idea behind it all that falls to pieces.

This is a difficulty of the limitation of this communication medium. If I was with you, there would be non-verbal body language. As you are doubting that I might possibly be saying what you think I am saying, you begin to form a response, I would begin to respond to assure you that I am saying what you think I am saying and we would much easier have a meeting of minds. As it is here though, you maybe picture my face and personality as being rather like a character you have known, and you no doubt expect that I would represent some doctrines that you have assumed belong to Christianity when in fact I would call them apostate doctrines (eg: Original Sin, Penalty Substitution Atonement etc).

It doesn't mean we can't work through that with patience and come to a meeting of minds.

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit but prove the spirits to see if they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world".

A false prophet is one who claims to speak for God but whom God does not speak through. When people believe that the false prophets are representing God, they yield their mind to thinking wrongly of God, and inevitably this propagates as they pass those ideas along (Jeremiah 23:30).

Hence the world has become full of confusion in Jesus' name. Many so-called Christian doctrines are just not logically sound, and they aren't supported by scripture when scripture is read properly.

Looks like I don't either.

Indeed this is a complication to you, such that caused you to say to @jesus316 "I cannot see the love component.". Though, it is love in your heart that compels you to say what you are saying, so it is something that education for discernment can help with.

Please explain, if you don't mind. I don't understand what you mean by authority or being justified by scripture.

Authority is about recognising the right to judge. In Christianity we learn that we are to refrain from judging one another and from being judged (Eg: Romans 2:1, Colossians 2:16). The most fundamental principle of The Gospel is to know Him whom we believe (John 17:3, John 14:21, John 14:17), whereas the doctrines of the antichrist has disrupted that reality by teaching that we should only have hope in seeing Him after we die. As a result, the vast majority of Christians simply do not recognise The Holy Spirit when He stands in front of them and speaks. As a result, they rely on their man-made systems of ordinance to ascribe authority, based upon reputation such as having achieved seminary degrees - but they do not recognise the spiritual disposition of a person, whether they are walking in the light or in the darkness. 1 Corinthians 2:14 describes them and 1 John 4:7 describes you.

As far as being justified by the scriptures, this is about demonstrating authority in the kingdom of God. It is because the scriptures are inspired of one spirit, that if someone is "In Christ" (John 15:4, Romans 8:1, John 5:39), then there is no contradiction in their handling of scripture (or if it may be shown to them that they do have an erroneous teaching, which is certainly to be expected, then they are willing to remain in Christ by repentance - John 10:4-5).

On the other hand, those who are not justified by scripture continue growing more hypocritical as they continue resisting The Spirit of truth (Matthew 13:12, Matthew 6:23), until eventually they have become the thorn bush that a person such as yourself would not pluck a fig from (Matthew 7:16).

Well, this is a downer too. I've had zero success finding someone patient and knowledgeable enough to help me understand things. I figured if I throw it all out where it can be seen by lots of people, maybe, if God loves me, he would use one of you out there to reach me. Maybe it was a stupid idea in the first place.

I did see you last week, but I have been too busy to write. I have been on the road a lot this week. I tell you though, the real knowledge of the truth did pass away two thousand years ago. You should consider the parable of Matthew 21:33-46. This is why I have told you that you should work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for "I have no one else like Timothy, all seek after their own interests and not those of Christ Jesus".

 

[hedrick]

Jesus talks about hell WAY more than heaven, and I always wondered how scare tactics could possibly produce faithful followers.

The Gospel-writers obviously chose from a large volume of teaching.

Actual mentions of hell (gehenna) are entirely in Matthew except Mark 9:43-45, which is clearly hyperbole and Luke 12:25, which doesn't say anyone is actually sent there.

Hades was probably temporary. It occurs in a parable in Matthew and Luke, and not in Mark (also in Matthew and Luke in a passage where a city is sent there -- which I assume wasn't intended literally).

Given the rather different frequencies in the different Gospels, I wouldn't want to say that Jesus spoke about it a lot.

If you want a counter-balance to Matthew's references to hell, take a look at John's references to eternal life (and for that matter the other Gospels, though John has the most references). That was Jesus' characteristic term, not heaven. As far as I can see Jesus didn't talk about going to heaven. That's because eternal life starts now.

 

[ToBeLoved]

But there is no proof that it is true, or we would all be less confused. What proof are you speaking of? How do I know if I am experiencing an authentic presentation of the gospel or not? How do we know the gospel says what we think it says? I'm so afraid all this might boil down to who receives inner revelation and who doesn't. Isn't it possible God just picks and chooses whom he makes himself "real" to, and he didn't pick me, so why even create me? I'm obviously a big mistake - a total metaphysical and spiritual failure.



This I have never heard before. Please elaborate? From my studies, I've operated under the principle that, according to God, his creation is more than enough evidence of his existence and love. You don't need anything else. I have no problem with the existence part; I cannot see the love component. That puts me right back to the absent watchmaker: All-powerful, All-knowing, no longer involved with us.



True, we can't know for sure, but even allowing for that it strikes me as being a spoon of water amidst the entire ocean of created and condemned people. All those people who God created specifically for hell. He knows that's where they are going, and he creates them anyway.

I read the excerpt from Romans you posted. I remember it from a different translation but it still seems so very depressing.

Why do you expect to see the love of God in people?

Sounds like you’ve read enough of the Bible to know each human being is a sinful sinner.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Why do you expect to see the love of God in people?

Sounds like you’ve read enough of the Bible to know each human being is a sinful sinner.

Faith is believing that what God says about Himself is true

 

[LastAttempt]

The Gospel-writers obviously chose from a large volume of teaching.

Actual mentions of hell (gehenna) are entirely in Matthew except Mark 9:43-45, which is clearly hyperbole and Luke 12:25, which doesn't say anyone is actually sent there.

Hades was probably temporary. It occurs in a parable in Matthew and Luke, and not in Mark (also in Matthew and Luke in a passage where a city is sent there -- which I assume wasn't intended literally).

Given the rather different frequencies in the different Gospels, I wouldn't want to say that Jesus spoke about it a lot.

If you want a counter-balance to Matthew's references to hell, take a look at John's references to eternal life (and for that matter the other Gospels, though John has the most references). That was Jesus' characteristic term, not heaven. As far as I can see Jesus didn't talk about going to heaven. That's because eternal life starts now.

Thank you so much for this. I am going to take some time to research and cogitate on your post.

 

[LastAttempt]

@Serving Zion
Wow, thank you again. That's a lot to digest. I'd better get started.

 

[hedrick]

Why do you expect to see the love of God in people?

Sounds like you’ve read enough of the Bible to know each human being is a sinful sinner.

Faith is believing that what God says about Himself is true

Because Jesus commissioned us to be his agents. If we're doing our job, people should see God's love in us.