Can someone be evil and righteous?

[salt-n-light]

My sister and I had a discussion on the meaning of "good" and "evil" vs. "righteous" and
"unrighteous"

My sister stance is that we are all evil but through Jesus and receiving the Holy Spirit be made righteous. You are still evil even after be made righteous. You can be both at the same time

My stance is that we are all evil but through Jesus and receiving the Holy Spirit be made righteous. But if you are righteous you are made clean, you are no longer evil. If you are evil you can't be righteous.You can't be both at the same time.

We both agree that no one is good, but our understanding of evil is different. I read it as if you're calling someone evil you're pronouncing a judgement that may not be true. She's saying that its a judgement we already have from birth and its just reiterating the truth.

If anyone can provide clarity with scriptures that would be awesome.

 

[HARK!]

What fellowship does light have with darkness?

Can a house divided against itself stand?

(CLV) Lk 11:24
"Whenever the unclean spirit may be coming out from a man, it is passing through waterless places, seeking rest, and not finding it. Then it is saying, `I will be returning into my home whence I came out.'

(CLV) Lk 11:25
And coming, it is finding it unoccupied, swept and decorated.

(CLV) Lk 11:26
Then it is going and taking along with itself seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and entering, it is dwelling there. And the last state of that man is becoming worse than the first."

 

[A_JAY]

Luther said we were Saint and Sinner at the same time.

 

[salt-n-light]

Luther said we were Saint and Sinner at the same time.

Yes but that's Luther. Does that line up with the scriptures?

 

[salt-n-light]

What fellowship does light have with darkness?

Can a house divided against itself stand?

(CLV) Lk 11:24
"Whenever the unclean spirit may be coming out from a man, it is passing through waterless places, seeking rest, and not finding it. Then it is saying, `I will be returning into my home whence I came out.'

(CLV) Lk 11:25
And coming, it is finding it unoccupied, swept and decorated.

(CLV) Lk 11:26
Then it is going and taking along with itself seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and entering, it is dwelling there. And the last state of that man is becoming worse than the first."

That's my understanding, that if you're righteous, then you can't be evil. But I also get what my sister is saying that we are innately evil and no one is good. That being born in sin means that we will always be evil since we are of the flesh.

But what is good and what is evil, God makes that choice. So its weird for me to say that person is evil, they can be wicked, the person I can say is being evil(which is wicked) but to say that they are evil, seems off. If we are of the spirit, and we are presented holy and acceptable, are we still evil? And what was made clean? And how does the Spirit dwell while we are still evil?

Idk is "wicked" and "evil" the same thing?

 

[timothyu]

Consider if God had put His spirit in a cat. It can be domesticated but it will still scratch. We are who we are until we die, where those who (not scratch) but prefer scratching, will not proceed. They preferred their animal state unlike the alternative offered. Animal state serves self and makes no room to act as a channel for God.

 

[salt-n-light]

Consider if God had put His spirit in a cat. It can be domesticated but it will still scratch. We are who we are until we die, where those who prefer scratching will not proceed. They preferred their animal state unlike the alternative offered. Animal state serves self and makes no room to act as a channel for God.

I understand that we are born in sin, but are we evil? Is that cat scratching because of his state of being evil, or does evil cause the cat to scratch himself? Is the cat ever righteous then? Can the spirit dwell in a evil cat? Does it even make sense then to call the cat evil, if it was already evil and will always be evil?

 

[timothyu]

I understand that we are born in sin, but are we evil? Is that cat scratching because of his state of being evil, or does evil cause the cat to scratch himself? Is the cat ever righteous then? Can the spirit dwell in a evil cat? Does it even make sense then to call the cat evil, if it was already evil and will always be evil?

Consider that evil is nothing more than the cat (man) choosing to follow it's own will instead of the will of God.

 

[salt-n-light]

Consider that evil is nothing more than the cat (man) choosing to follow it's own will instead of the will of God.

Ok, but if they are following God's will, are they still evil?

 

[timothyu]

Ok, but if they are following God's will, are they still evil?

We are still both as we will always have that dual nature as long as we function in these bodies. We became both when we became aware of ourselves. As Jesus said, no man is good.

 

[salt-n-light]

We are still both as we will always have that dual nature as long as we function in these bodies. We became both when we became aware of ourselves. As Jesus said, no man is good.

So would it be correct to say that even following God's will, that you are still evil.

 

[timothyu]

So would it be correct to say that even following God's will, that you are still evil.

I would say so as we will not be able to refrain from our own will. That is the drawback of self awareness. Soon as the Technocrat age comes to fruition with these recent self serving movements, man will join with technology. What will happen if the technological side of man becomes aware of itself? Will we be able to control it?

 

[A_JAY]

Yes but that's Luther. Does that line up with the scriptures?

It sure does as much as timothyu example. You are using "evil" and "righteous". that's where your argument goes off. The cat still scratches. We still sin. Saint and Sinner at the same time

 

[Anthony2019]

Can someone be evil and righteous. I don't really think so, but I do believe that someone can give the appearance of being righteous when they are deliberately living a life of falsehood.
I have had a Christian faith for around 27 years and, up to now, there has never been a time where I felt I had to dissociate myself with someone.
However, in recent weeks I have had to finish a friendship with someone I have known for a very long time. The person is a longstanding member of a local church where he is highly respected and regarded as a mature and committed Christian. He has a friend, who is also a mutual friend of mine, and his behaviour towards him has been very unkind and abusive and it has been happening for a while now. I have recently discovered that he has been very much living a very different kind of life to that which he portrays to his brothers and sisters at church, and has been using my other friend as a scapegoat to project his insecurities and problems.
Christians are not perfect, and like everyone else, they have to deal with problems in their own lives, including unresolved sin. The problem is when someone who states that they are a Christian treats others badly while living a life of sustained hypocrisy.
This person had started making serious and unfounded accusations about our other friend which caused a lot of distress and hurt to him. It also became very clear that the very things he was accusing our friend of doing he had been doing himself.
Despite attempts to confront this person with the truth about himself and how his behaviour is affecting others and severely harming the witness of his church, he is refusing to accept that he is doing anything wrong. Therefore I have had to break contact and will not be touch with him again until he shows genuine remorse for what he has done and sincerely apologises to our other friend.

 

[salt-n-light]

It sure does as much as timothyu example. You are using "evil" and "righteous". that's where your argument goes off. The cat still scratches. We still sin. Saint and Sinner at the same time

It's just as much as timothyu that is true. Which is probably why I still go back and forth, probably with scripture would give clarity to the terms.

My sister made the statement that Budhists are evil. But I was questioning if its the fact that they are Budhist that made them evil, or that being evil led them to being Budhist. And does that justify calling them evil, does that same justification apply to any other person.

With righteous, can one lose their right-standing? Are we constantly in and out of that because of our nature to being evil? Would it be right then to call ourselves righteous, or should that be left to God?

 

[A_JAY]

I don't think I would go that far about Buddhists. If you are witnessing to a Buddhist with that attitude where do you think you will end up? Hating the one you [not YOU] are trying to convert?. Titus reminds us to Remember who we are. That is to keep us humble. Evil vs Righteous I think is useless terminology for what I talked about. I do think that Timothyu and Anthony and I were saying basically the same thing in different words.

 

[salt-n-light]

I don't think I would go that far about Buddhists. If you are witnessing to a Buddhist with that attitude where do you think you will end up? Hating the one you [not YOU] are trying to convert?. Titus reminds us to Remember who we are. That is to keep us humble. Evil vs Righteous I think is useless terminology for what I talked about. I do think that Timothyu and Anthony and I were saying basically the same thing in different words.

Yeah I recognized you and Timothyu were saying the same things, I guess what I'm wrestling with is where does it end, since no one can enter into God's Kingdom as a saint and sinner, one must be prevailing the other no? And do I have that authority to call one "evil" or "righteous" since unless I see their fruits, I don't know the heart of man.

 

[timothyu]

where does it end

Adam and Eve were originally not gods like us. That came with their self awareness. Are you willing to give up self awareness to return to the Garden?

 

[salt-n-light]

Adam and Eve were originally not gods like us. That came with their self awareness. Are you willing to give up self awareness to return to the Garden?

We're gonna give that up anyways when we die. But let's not deter from the topic.

 

[public hermit]

I would say, humans can be both good and evil at the same time, so long as it is in different ways. In substance, humans are good in that we are creatures of the Creator God in whose image we are created. That doesn't change so long as we persist in existence. The evil aspect of humanity concerns the will and intention. Humans, for reasons not exactly clear, can choose and do that which is evil. That which is evil is contrary to, and works against, that which is good. Moreover, we can will both good and evil at different times, and most do.

So, we are a walking contradiction, substantially good while intentionally embracing evil (to a greater or less degree). I don't know that grace changes that situation completely in this life. Hopefully, we are intending less evil and more good, as we are being transformed more and more into the image of Christ. Whatever the case, being "reckoned" as righteous by grace does not mean our lies instantly become truth, or that our misdeeds instantly become good works. So, unless one claims perfection, then even under grace we sin and do evil. So, there is a sense (or two) in which a person can be both good and evil at the same time, just in different ways.