Can serial killer's or mass murderes go to heaven.

[JustJack!]

I, too, believe in a thing called justice, JustJack!, but if it is not a justice tempered with mercy, then it is a justice not befitting the revealed God of the Bible.

Mercy that is attached to petty strings is not genuine mercy.

Would you like to be on the receiving end of that type of justice, yourself. Think about this, for example. Biblically, no one sin is better or worse than another in God's eyes. So if God were hung up on justice, rather than mercy, if you ever uttered an obscenity, or even thought about making love outside of marriage, you'd be in danger of that merciless justice. As Matthew 7:1-2 indicates, if we make judgments, we will ourselves be judged by our own measuring stick.

But that's not justice. In reality, not every little "sin" is equal to another. Swearing, the act of uttering a certain string of syllables that society arbitrarily deemed offensive, isn't comparable to murder or rape.

Justice is rational measure of the incident and it's effect and giving appropriate punishment that fits, that equals, the effect of the act being judged on the victims.

Justice is not extremely overblown punishments and rewards given out for the content of ones beliefs and thoughts and not for the content of their actions.

Believe me when I tell you, brother, there is no intention on my part to flame on you in this post, by any means. I'm just giving you some food for thought.

I wouldn't care if were flaming me, hell, feel free, it'ld be the first good, *****-slapfest kinda debate I'm used to.

By far, not the most lively forum I've been in.

 

[josh_676]

I'm sorry, but I believe in a thing called justice.

With Christianity, you can kill a dozen people, accept Christ, and go right on to heaven while the people you butchered are writhing hell simply because they believe in Jesus.

Might as well be giving rapists medals while we beat and mutilate the rape victims.

Thank you, my point excactly.

 

[Cassiopeia]

This is the very problem I have with Christianity. To say that a murderer would be able to be forgiven simply by accepting Jesus as their saviour in my opinion is spitting on Jesus and his blood sacrifice.

Good luck I say with getting into heaven with people who led good lives their ENTIRE life and were faithful to ANY doctrine. There is NO justice when a murderer can just "repent" and you might argue well they must truely be repentant and I can tell you that any kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar when facing punishment is INDEED very sorry. So NO, in my book, Hitler and the likes of him are not going to be in any heaven no matter what.

Casi (getting off the soap box now)

 

[rebelEnigma]

Serial killers and mass murderers can get into Heaven only if they choose to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour, and ask Him for forgiveness. They must be sincere about it and turn away from it completely.

Remember, Paul himself orchestrated the mass murders of the early Christians and he authored 13 New Testament books (it's safe to assume that he went to Heaven).

No sin is bad enough for someone to remain unforgiven by God.

 

[Im_A]

Howdy, I've been having a 'debate' with some people lately on whether or not a serial killer can go to heaven.

My argument is... A serial killer sets out to deliberately and methodically end the live's of his victims for his pleasure. They are cold and calculated. Therefore, he cannot repent, and ever truly be sorry for what he did. Therefore cannot gain access to heaven.

So it's on, can they go to heaven? if Hitler repented for killing 8 million plus could he be in heaven? I don't think so, but I want to know your oppinions, and why.

supposedly Paul is in heaven correct? he's just a murderer as any other criminal. so if we would put your theory here with Paul, we need to get rid of most of the Epistles correct? (please don't take that sarcastic, but it's a serious question )

i believe they can. now i believe that they will not experience salvation in this life because of it, because of the guilty conscience that exists till death, being put in prison, or let's say, released from prison and what happens to them aftewards. so a finite crime as big as this, puts a lot of bad things that are experienced for the life time, and it is deserved to be put on that person for doing that.

but in the next life? in this life eventually the memory of the murdered victim will be no more. the consequences will end in the afterlife because eventually the name of the person killed and its generations will die off in this life. and i believe God's Will is stronger than free-will. the effects one action had on generations will eventually cease to exist, thus i believe showing that even the extremity of murder is actually a finite crime. and for an infinite punishment given for a finite crime? well that is obviously unjust. but a finite punishment for a finite crime is just, and that the murderer gets clearly in this life. and it is swift eternal punishment in this life that happens...as it should be.

i don't believe we can truly judge the afterlife in all reality, but i'm set with my presumptions God Bless you! <><

 

[Blackguard_]

My argument is... A serial killer sets out to deliberately and methodically end the live's of his victims for his pleasure. They are cold and calculated. Therefore, he cannot repent, and ever truly be sorry for what he did. Therefore cannot gain access to heaven.

How does "can not repent" follow from "cold and calculated"? And robberies can be cold and calculated too. Heck, most if not all sins can be cold and calculated.


And the case of an actual serial killer seems to disagree with you.

 

[SpiritualPilgrim]

In reality, not every little "sin" is equal to another. Swearing, the act of uttering a certain string of syllables that society arbitrarily deemed offensive, isn't comparable to murder or rape.

Actually, as I said before, given the Bible's view on such things, one sin is equal to another. Biblically, God is basically stating that all sin is disobedience, and the depth of the disobedience is not measured by the gravity or heinousness of the act. It is merely registered as sin.

If justice is such a high priority that the grace and mercy that Jesus represents are a scandal to you, know that they are a scandal to Jews and Muslims,too, steeped as both of those faiths are in the "eye for an eye" mentality. But as George Bernard Shaw pointed out, "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." In short, there's nobody here but us chickens. And the fact that some of us may have more warts than others is really irrelevant to the message that Christianity brings.

In summary, biblically speaking, either Christ died for all, or he died for none. The bottom line is, one who is truly repentant is forgiven or God's grace & love are a lie.

 

[neilius73]

Of course they can! Look at George W Bush, surely he qualifies as a serial killer.

 

[SpiritualPilgrim]

Of course they can! Look at George W Bush, surely he qualifies as a serial killer.

You may have meant that as a joke...and I admit that I got a chuckle from it. But the sad part is that I'm not sure that you're not right!

 

[Cassiopeia]

You may have meant that as a joke...and I admit that I got a chuckle from it. But the sad part is that I'm not sure that you're not right!

that is the hardest thing to contemplate when a citizen of any country has to question the actions of an elected official. Scary at the very least.

 

[JustJack!]

that is the hardest thing to contemplate when a citizen of any country has to question the actions of an elected official. Scary at the very least.

No, what's scary is the lack of question of officials we have in this country now. No one is held accountable.

 

[SpiritualPilgrim]

that is the hardest thing to contemplate when a citizen of any country has to question the actions of an elected official. Scary at the very least.

I disagree. I'm not a blind follower of any man or man-made institution.

I question when I see policies that have failed, and the widespread corruption I've seen in this man's administration and a great many people with whom he is associated. Contrary to what many conservatives would have you believe, that questioning is patriotic. It indicates a love for one's country that is deep enough to say, "Hey, mistakes are being made. Let's look a little closer!"