Can Science ...

[x141]

(in it's purest form) prove that who you believe yourself to be as consciousness exists?

 

[HitchSlap]

Nope. We could be brains in a vat.

I don't think we are, but how would we prove we're not?

Which is why every single one of us make three fundamental assumptions:

1. Reality exists.
2. We can know some things about reality.
3. Falsifiable models with predictive capabilities work better than those without.

 

[durangodawood]

Science is not useful for investigating unfalsifiable notions.
Science is very useful for investigating the material world.... whether it "really exists" or not. In my life I'm quite pleased with many of the fruits of scientific investigation.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Sciences dont really prove anything and the self belongs to presuppositions and auxiliary assumptions. But theres abduction in logic, inference to the best explanation. Also Husserl commented that empirical sciences are not the only ones though. But as for his view on the self, I am not sure that every phenomenologist would agree with every detail of his observations. But I think that a cionscious self exists. Not only can we experience our being as embodied agents, but where else would all of this self speak come from?

 

[x141]

Nope. We could be brains in a vat.

I don't think we are, but how would we prove we're not?

Which is why every single one of us make three fundamental assumptions:

1. Reality exists.
2. We can know some things about reality.
3. Falsifiable models with predictive capabilities work better than those without.

1. You got to start somewhere, or every God (which is just a word) has an Adam.
2. Nothing is as it first appears.
3. What becomes obvious becomes the new norm
3a. yet all summed up in and by consciousness that, or who becomes the erector (by thought) of the image of ... curious ...

My experience thus far is that inner space is larger than outspace; one can be measured, one can not.

 

[x141]

Sciences dont really prove anything and the self belongs to presuppositions and auxiliary assumptions. But theres abduction in logic, inference to the best explanation. Also Husserl commented that empirical sciences are not the only ones though. But as for his view on the self, I am not sure that every phenomenologist would agree with every detail of his observations. But I think that a cionscious self exists. Not only can we experience our being as embodied agents, but where else would all of this self speak come from?

The fundamental truth of consciousness is it's ability to create something out of nothing which is exhibited in everything that consciousness touches.

 

[x141]

Science is not useful for investigating unfalsifiable notions.
Science is very useful for investigating the material world.... whether it "really exists" or not. In my life I'm quite pleased with many of the fruits of scientific investigation.

In one form this is like the dialectic principle that is found in everything, measurable or not.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The fundamental truth of consciousness is it's ability to create something out of nothing which is exhibited in everything that consciousness touches.

Example of consciousness creating something from nothing?

 

[KCfromNC]

The fundamental truth of consciousness is it's ability to create something out of nothing which is exhibited in everything that consciousness touches.

Huh? Consciousness is just one of the things the brain does. It doesn't have magical powers to create reality out of nothingness. Heck, I can't even use it to conjure up a doughnut for breakfast this morning. No matter how hard I try, my plate is still empty.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The fundamental truth of consciousness is it's ability to create something out of nothing which is exhibited in everything that consciousness touches.

Can you please provide one example of a "consciousness" creating something out of nothing?

And I do mean an actual something... not just an idea or concept or any other abstract thing. An actual real thing, which is objectively observable in reality.

 

[x141]

Can you please provide one example of a "consciousness" creating something out of nothing?

And I do mean an actual something... not just an idea or concept or any other abstract thing. An actual real thing, which is objectively observable in reality.

The context of this thread is about what they have named consciousness not matter (I'm really not interested in anything that does not reflect what this is to me relationally (after all this is the philosophy area ... (or as Pooh said, he's not in the book you know).

An example to me in this context would be, I am a musician, and what I play in the moment no tablature has been written for yet (which I both am and do).

 

[durangodawood]

(in it's purest form) prove that who you believe yourself to be as consciousness exists?

I have to ask what you mean by "exists" to be sure.
But youve just said that ideas, music, etc "exist".
So I'd say yes. science can prove you as a consciousness exists. (Leaving aside such undecidable and worthless propositions like 'brain-in-a-vat'.).

 

[DogmaHunter]

The context of this thread is about what they have named consciousness not matter (I'm really not interested in anything that does not reflect what this is to me relationally (after all this is the philosophy area ... (or as Pooh said, he's not in the book you know).

An example to me in this context would be, I am a musician, and what I play in the moment no tablature has been written for yet (which I both am and do).

In other words, you have no such examples.

What you call "creation from nothing", I call "imagination" - which is not from nothing, as it is something that is produced by your pre-existing physical brain.

It's not really a "something" either (well, not a physical 'something'). Rather, it's an abstract. A concept. An idea. You know... the kind of things imagination produces.

 

[durangodawood]

Also,
We should distinguish between a "thing" and an "activity".
Improvised music is the brain in action. Its not a thing. Or is it?

 

[Ana the Ist]

The context of this thread is about what they have named consciousness not matter (I'm really not interested in anything that does not reflect what this is to me relationally (after all this is the philosophy area ... (or as Pooh said, he's not in the book you know).

An example to me in this context would be, I am a musician, and what I play in the moment no tablature has been written for yet (which I both am and do).

So a piece of music?

You do realize it's not your conscious making the sounds you hear....it's the instrument.

 

[durangodawood]

A brain 'makes' music like legs 'make' running.

 

[x141]

A brain 'makes' music like legs 'make' running.

So your brain has nothing to do with running ... but music does ... why not say your fingers make music ...

 

[x141]

So a piece of music?

You do realize it's not your conscious making the sounds you hear....it's the instrument.

I tried to set the guitar in the corner and let it play, but it wouldn't listen to me.

 

[Noxot]

my brain creates all the music that it listens to. it translates vibrations into various chemical reactions which are a kind of language that my brain uses to understand via it's own context. the music that I listen to is a thing that did not exist until i listened to it.

 

[x141]

Also,
We should distinguish between a "thing" and an "activity".
Improvised music is the brain in action. Its not a thing. Or is it?

So is Consciousness (as in who we believe ourselves to be) not a thing since it is an action of the brain?