can ocd be beat?

[ke1985]

Good advice Steeler and Grace,

glad to hear your doing well drummingman!

 

[seajoy]

HI Steelerbred,
Thank you for your compassionate responses.
Just want to let you know that for some of us, me in particular, the type of cognitive therapy which you laid out in the example below can be counter productive to our learning to manage our OCD.
I've used counter statements, challenging statments and logical debate methods with my OCD and it's only gotten me more deeply mired in the cycle. This is because when you begin to debate, problem solve, ruminate, etc. about an unwanted OCD obsession you give it more weight, more importance, more validity and in doing so it becomes larger and more urgent than ever before. It also gets more deeply mired in your consciousness.
What has worked for me has been the exact opposite. I don't debate, argue, or engage in conversation with my intrusive OCD thoughts. I ignore them like so much meaningless static on the radio. When they say "Boo"!!. I say.. so what, bugger off I haven't got time to waste on you.
The method that has worked the best for me is called exposure response prevention therapy.
This has been my own personal experience. I'm not a physician. I just share what has been helpful to me in the hopes that maybe I can encourage and help someone else.
The cognitive approach you are describing may be helpful to others, but for me and probably for quite a few others, it could also make our OCD worse.
Just wanted to share that with you.
Thanks for taking the time to reach out in love and concern for someone who is suffering with OCD. I appreciate your compassionate approach.
Mitzi

Excellent post, Mitzi. Cognitive therapy just imbeds one more into OCD. You may feel good for a short while...but it comes back with a vengance soon after.
No engaging of thoughts is warranted. When there is no more war, the ocd leaves.
I know of no psychiatrist who would treat ocd in another way but exposure/response therapy.

 

[drummingman]

something that i really struggle with is feeling like i do things because of being ashamed of God. like if im talking about God or if im reading out loud something about God its like i will get quiet or pull back and not say or read the words loud enough. its like i feel this pressure from the inside to not talk about God in a normal way. so what happens is that i feel like i was ashamed of God and then i have a ton of guilt over feeling like i was ashamed of God. i have asked myself if this is just the ocd messing with me but i dont know. the reason is that i am the one that keeps getting quiet and pulling back when talking about God and when reading out loud about God so that makes me responsible. i ask myself why i get quiet and pull back and the thing that comes into my mind is that i was ashamed of God. if that is not why im getting quiet and pulling back then i dont know why i am. i dont know if this is real or from the ocd. i say that because again i am the one that is getting quiet when talking about God and reading about God. im sure that at times i am not pulling back and that sometimes its in my head. but in a situation where i here myself get quiet and when i feel myself pull back then i know its me. this all causes me a ton of distress.
all of this happens so fast and then im in the situation. i know that my friend that is a pastor tells me not to pray about things when its the ocd but what im struggling with is knowing if i was really ashamed of God or if its just the ocd. if its just the ocd i dont know why i get quite and pull back and things like that when i talk about God and read about God.
i really do need help with this so what do you all think?

 

[keryakos]

something that i really struggle with is feeling like i do things because of being ashamed of God. like if im talking about God or if im reading out loud something about God its like i will get quiet or pull back and not say or read the words loud enough. its like i feel this pressure from the inside to not talk about God in a normal way. so what happens is that i feel like i was ashamed of God and then i have a ton of guilt over feeling like i was ashamed of God. i have asked myself if this is just the ocd messing with me but i dont know. the reason is that i am the one that keeps getting quiet and pulling back when talking about God and when reading out loud about God so that makes me responsible. i ask myself why i get quiet and pull back and the thing that comes into my mind is that i was ashamed of God. if that is not why im getting quiet and pulling back then i dont know why i am. i dont know if this is real or from the ocd. i say that because again i am the one that is getting quiet when talking about God and reading about God. im sure that at times i am not pulling back and that sometimes its in my head. but in a situation where i here myself get quiet and when i feel myself pull back then i know its me. this all causes me a ton of distress.
all of this happens so fast and then im in the situation. i know that my friend that is a pastor tells me not to pray about things when its the ocd but what im struggling with is knowing if i was really ashamed of God or if its just the ocd. if its just the ocd i dont know why i get quite and pull back and things like that when i talk about God and read about God.
i really do need help with this so what do you all think?

i totally understand about not knowing if its me or OCD ,,oh yes ..the only thing i have found that helps me a little ..is that if it worries me then it isnt likely me as in from my heart i struggle with this ..so i understand that at least .

 

[ke1985]

here is an interesting article:

http://www.2001translation.com/Hell.htm

 

[ke1985]

does ignoring your ocd help? what helps you?

 

[RyanLeeParis]

From my understanding OCD is a fear that something bad will happen and you feel you have to prevent it by doing something completely unrelated. I hear eating a banana is good for OCD, since it does something to the serotonin and alarm system in your brain.

 

[gracealone]

something that i really struggle with is feeling like i do things because of being ashamed of God. like if im talking about God or if im reading out loud something about God its like i will get quiet or pull back and not say or read the words loud enough. its like i feel this pressure from the inside to not talk about God in a normal way. so what happens is that i feel like i was ashamed of God and then i have a ton of guilt over feeling like i was ashamed of God. i have asked myself if this is just the ocd messing with me but i dont know. the reason is that i am the one that keeps getting quiet and pulling back when talking about God and when reading out loud about God so that makes me responsible. i ask myself why i get quiet and pull back and the thing that comes into my mind is that i was ashamed of God. if that is not why im getting quiet and pulling back then i dont know why i am. i dont know if this is real or from the ocd. i say that because again i am the one that is getting quiet when talking about God and reading about God. im sure that at times i am not pulling back and that sometimes its in my head. but in a situation where i here myself get quiet and when i feel myself pull back then i know its me. this all causes me a ton of distress.
all of this happens so fast and then im in the situation. i know that my friend that is a pastor tells me not to pray about things when its the ocd but what im struggling with is knowing if i was really ashamed of God or if its just the ocd. if its just the ocd i dont know why i get quite and pull back and things like that when i talk about God and read about God.
i really do need help with this so what do you all think?

Hi Drummingman

Here's the answer as to whether this doubt is just another OCD attack or not:

"this all causes me tons of distress."

That's how you know it's OCD. Real/valid, questions and doubts don't create this kind of agony. The answers suffice. OCD doubts create more and more anxiety/guilt and the more we pick at them the harder they bleed.
Do you level best to put the stamp of OCD on it, ignore it, and move on.
God Bless,
Mitz

 

[drummingman]

hey mitzi thanks for your post.
things have been much easier lately in my prayers which is awesome! but as is i am having some problems still so i could still use prayer.

 

[drummingman]

im still really struggling with feeling like im pulling back when talking about God with people. i feel like i pull back when talking about God or jesus or church or all kinds of things to do with God when talking to people. the thing is that its like it happens before i can catch myself and so i will say what i said over again in a non pulled back way to show that im not ashamed of God or jesus or anything to do with God or jesus. but the problem will be that because i pulled back already i feel awful that i pulled back when talking about God and jesus. i do believe that God forgives me everytime i do this when i beg him to forgive me for all my sins and mistakes. i just feel so bad, the thoughts that come into my mind is that im pulling back because im ashamed of God and jesus and things to do with God and jesus.
this kind of struggle has been going on for me for a good while now and i would really like to here all of your thoughts. thanks.

 

[ke1985]

Hang in there...i know its hard for you.

Have you been trying to ignore these thoughts? What have you been doing to feel better?

Remember your a work in progress be patient with yourself and don't give up

 

[gracealone]

Hi Drummingman,
Remember that OCD carries with it a tendency for hyperscrupulosity. This means that we tend to intensely over examine our actions/thoughts and feelings to check and see if we are doing something that might be dangerous. The "do it over" activity is a compulsive thing which we do in order to try and gain a feeling of reassurance.
Whenever something like this happens try to look at the whole process and identify the OCD pattern. Once you see that pattern, then you can label it OCD and treat it accordingly.
1. Obsession "I feel like I might have pulled back from God in the way I talked about Him. Danger: "If I did then this might mean that I'm rejecting God and if I am rejecting Him this might mean that I'm not really saved."
2.Compulsion: "I need to fix this by doing it over again in the right way."
3.Temporary relief
4. New obsession "But the fact that I already pulled back still makes me feel as if I'm rejecting God"
5. Compulsion: mental rumination and debate. "Did I or am I really pulling back from God? How can I know for sure? I need to figure this out? etc."
The key to managing the OCD is to make every effort to stop the compulsive activity. That's very hard work and it's OK if at first you fail in your efforts as long as you keep up practicing you'll get better and better at it.
It might even be a good idea to keep a record of the pattern of your OCD cycles in order to show it to your Dr.. This would probably be a great way of expressing what you go through to them.
Just an idea.
Mitzi

 

[seajoy]

Hi Drummingman,
Remember that OCD carries with it a tendency for hyperscrupulosity. This means that we tend to intensely over examine our actions/thoughts and feelings to check and see if we are doing something that might be dangerous. The "do it over" activity is a compulsive thing which we do in order to try and gain a feeling of reassurance.
Whenever something like this happens try to look at the whole process and identify the OCD pattern. Once you see that pattern, then you can label it OCD and treat it accordingly.
1. Obsession "I feel like I might have pulled back from God in the way I talked about Him. Danger: "If I did then this might mean that I'm rejecting God and if I am rejecting Him this might mean that I'm not really saved."
2.Compulsion: "I need to fix this by doing it over again in the right way."
3.Temporary relief
4. New obsession "But the fact that I already pulled back still makes me feel as if I'm rejecting God"
5. Compulsion: mental rumination and debate. "Did I or am I really pulling back from God? How can I know for sure? I need to figure this out? etc."
The key to managing the OCD is to make every effort to stop the compulsive activity. That's very hard work and it's OK if at first you fail in your efforts as long as you keep up practicing you'll get better and better at it.
It might even be a good idea to keep a record of the pattern of your OCD cycles in order to show it to your Dr.. This would probably be a great way of expressing what you go through to them.
Just an idea.
Mitzi

Good job Mitzi.

 

[drummingman]

hi all. things have been much better lately which i praise God for! i have hit one of those struggles tonight where i feel like i pulled back and got quiet when talking about heaven and God because of fear that someone would hear me. that makes me afraid that i pulled back because of being ashamed of God and heaven. i do believe that that will be forgiven but its still causing me worry. i want so bad to never be ashamed of God and i want so bad to stand up for God the way i should. this is a struggle that comes and goes with me at times. i have not been struggling with this for quite awhile now which is great. its just something that i have been struggling with tonight.

 

[drummingman]

hey all.
thinga have been way better as of late. but i still have struggles for sure. i am only praying now 3 times a day so that i wont pray obsessively or compulsively. but when i pray at night when i go to bed i still really struggle when im trying to go quite in prayer. i say it that way because i never officially close my prayers now. but when i try to just go quite in prayer, meaning to where im not praying, i feel like i have to get everything as perfect as possible before i go quite. this makes the end of my nightly prayers very hard. im not sure what to do about this.
also, when i tell God that i love him with all my heart in my nightly prayer i also feel like i have to get that as perfect as possible. same goes when begging for forgiveness for all my sins and mistakes in my nightly prayer. so at times i have to keep telling the Lord God that i love him with all of my heart over and over again until i feel like i get it right or as right as possible and i feel like i have to keep begging for forgiveness for my sins over and over again until i feel like i get it right, or as right as possible. this has really happened to me hard for the last 2 nights and i dont know what to do about this struggle to make things better.
the reasons why this is so hard for me is because if i do things that i feel like is wrong when i tell the Lord God that that i love him with all my heart and when i pray for forgiveness for all my sins i get it in my mind that because i did not say these things right or because i said these things too quite or too lound or anything that makes me feel like i said these things wrong i feel like it somehow effects what i mean by what im saying. meaning i might think that because i messed up in any way when i was telling the Lord God that i love him with all my heart in my mind i will start to think that somehow that i did not mean what i prayed. same kind of thing happens when i mess up in any way when i pray for forgiveness for all my sins and mistakes.
what should i do about these struggles to make them better? i ask because these battles cause me a lot of anxiety when i think about going to bed at night and when i think about saying my nightly prayers. i deal with that anxiety because i get afraid that i will get into a big battle when saying my nightly prayers when i tell the Lord God that i love him with all my heart and when i pray for forgivness for all my sins and miskates and that i will have to keep saying these things over and over again until i get them right, or as right as possible.
also, can any of you recommed a way for me to find a good therapist that can really help me? i have not had a lot of luck with therapists and because i have to pay for it out of pocket i really need someone that can really help.

 

[gracealone]

Hi Drummingman,
When I read your post you reminded me of CS. Lewis. (You should take that as a compliment ). Any how, here's why. Lewis went through a period of struggle with this. When he would pray to God he would focus very intently on his attitudes. Things like, Am I totally in this with all my being, am I praying with feelings of faith, am I praying with a loving and thankfilled attitude, am I keeping my focus on God perfectly?" Everytime he'd finish a prayer he'd realize that he'd messed up in one of these ways, so he'd begin all over again only to realize that he'd just find one more way in which he felt his prayer was imperfect. Soon he realized that all this intent focus on checking his attitude, his words, his emotions whilst praying was driving him crazy. He said "therein lay the way of madness". He then realized that trying to muster up these feelings of faith only made them flee. So he accepted his imperfection in praying and left off trying to get it right. Then he was able to pray more freely and quit focusing so much on himself. It's enough that you are coming to God. He knows about our imperfections and hears and loves us not because we are perfect but because He is.
Just wanted to share that with you.
Good to hear from you.
Mitzi

hey all.
thinga have been way better as of late. but i still have struggles for sure. i am only praying now 3 times a day so that i wont pray obsessively or compulsively. but when i pray at night when i go to bed i still really struggle when im trying to go quite in prayer. i say it that way because i never officially close my prayers now. but when i try to just go quite in prayer, meaning to where im not praying, i feel like i have to get everything as perfect as possible before i go quite. this makes the end of my nightly prayers very hard. im not sure what to do about this.
also, when i tell God that i love him with all my heart in my nightly prayer i also feel like i have to get that as perfect as possible. same goes when begging for forgiveness for all my sins and mistakes in my nightly prayer. so at times i have to keep telling the Lord God that i love him with all of my heart over and over again until i feel like i get it right or as right as possible and i feel like i have to keep begging for forgiveness for my sins over and over again until i feel like i get it right, or as right as possible. this has really happened to me hard for the last 2 nights and i dont know what to do about this struggle to make things better.
the reasons why this is so hard for me is because if i do things that i feel like is wrong when i tell the Lord God that that i love him with all my heart and when i pray for forgiveness for all my sins i get it in my mind that because i did not say these things right or because i said these things too quite or too lound or anything that makes me feel like i said these things wrong i feel like it somehow effects what i mean by what im saying. meaning i might think that because i messed up in any way when i was telling the Lord God that i love him with all my heart in my mind i will start to think that somehow that i did not mean what i prayed. same kind of thing happens when i mess up in any way when i pray for forgiveness for all my sins and mistakes.
what should i do about these struggles to make them better? i ask because these battles cause me a lot of anxiety when i think about going to bed at night and when i think about saying my nightly prayers. i deal with that anxiety because i get afraid that i will get into a big battle when saying my nightly prayers when i tell the Lord God that i love him with all my heart and when i pray for forgivness for all my sins and miskates and that i will have to keep saying these things over and over again until i get them right, or as right as possible.
also, can any of you recommed a way for me to find a good therapist that can really help me? i have not had a lot of luck with therapists and because i have to pay for it out of pocket i really need someone that can really help.

 

[drummingman]

thanks mitzi for your post. i do want to get to the place where i dont feel like i have to be perfect in my prayers.
something that i really need help with right now is getting to the place where the ocd and the bad thoughts from the ocd have no effect on me. how can i get to the place where the ocd and the bad thoughts from the ocd have no effect on me?
as is the ocd has a lot of power over me in my life. i want to get to the place in my life where the ocd has no power over me. how can i do that?
i am going to be looking to get health insurance over the next number of months so i can start looking for a therapist that specializes in scrupulosity who can really help me. out of all the therapists only one has really known how to treat ocd and she really was not that good at dealing with scrupulosity.

 

[gracealone]

thanks mitzi for your post. i do want to get to the place where i dont feel like i have to be perfect in my prayers.

something that i really need help with right now is getting to the place where the ocd and the bad thoughts from the ocd have no effect on me. how can i get to the place where the ocd and the bad thoughts from the ocd have no effect on me?

Hi Drummingman,
OCD only starts to lose it's power when we refuse to do it's bidding. We give it power when we respond in the wrong way to it's threats. Picture the OCD as a mean pit bull that wants to attack you. Wrong way to respond: show your fear, start to run, push it away, beat at it with your fists. Result: that dog is going to really give you trouble. Right response: basically ignore it's presence, square your shoulders and walk right past it with a calm and confident stride - Result: it will realize that you're not afraid and that you're in charge. At first when we do this with our OCD it's very hard. Our brain has a big ol tantrum and pushes us very hard to attend to the OCD thoughts by sending out all those wretched alarm signals. But realizing that they are false alarms helps us to just ride out the emotional discomfort without attending to the OCD thought.
When you've been in a really long habitual cycle of OCD it takes lots of time, patience and above all perseverance to get to that place where the OCD isn't in the drivers seat. One thing that I've learned which is helpful to me is that if I am feeling some better that I must take advantage of those times to be even more aggressive toward my different OCD obsessions. That way, I'm practicing and honing my skills for the next attack. It's during those times that I usually practice active exposure to the thoughts by actually inviting them in and exaggerating their threats. I try to get as upset as I can about them. It's very different though from them tapping me on the shoulder and insisting that "now you'll ruminate." During these times I'm the one in charge as I am practicing accepting their presence and habituating my brain to them to the point that it stops freaking out about them.
I know you're tired of all this. I admire your long suffering and willingness to keep on for as long as it takes to gain the advantage over this enemy.
Remember Shelby, the best way to deal with a bully is to stand up to his threats and tell him that your not afraid of him any more. That's how you have to treat the obsessions too. Keep walking my friend.
Praying for you,
Mitzi

 

[drummingman]

my ocd has been very hard over the last 3 or 4 days. i have been going from one thing to the next in my mind with things trying to make me think that things have gotten messed up with the things that are most important to me and things that i really care about.
i did find out about a christian therapist in my area. she is out of the office untill the end of next month. i plan to call her then to see about setting up an apointment.
i also talk with another therapist on the phone. the thing is that she charges like 150.00 for the first visit and 115.00 for each visit after that. i have no health insurance as is and thats a bummer. dont know if i will be able to start seeing her because of the money. its such a shame that therapists charge that much money. most people just cant afford those kind of prices, at least i cant.