Can non-belief be a cause?

[hollyda]

...just like bald is a hair colour.

One of my hobbies is not collecting stamps.

 

[3rdHeaven]

One of my hobbies is not collecting stamps.

more atheist entertainment, thank you again!

 

[quatona]

One of my hobbies is not collecting stamps.

Are you equating God and stamps?

 

[quatona]

We all have our religions, and atheism is a religion too.

More theist entertainment.
Note to self: arguing that way is easy.

 

[hollyda]

Are you equating God and stamps?

Well, I don't doubt the existence of stamps.

 

[3rdHeaven]

More theist entertainment.
Note to self: arguing that way is easy.

Well the real difference is dramatic when you think about it.

I come here Christian Forums because I believe in God and there for like to hang with like minded people.

I would never hang out at a atheist forum, I find them all nonsensical and would never think of visiting a atheist forum let alone hanging on one of them every day of my life.

Yet ironically we see many atheists who consider God nonsense yet love to quote Church leaders and scriptures hanging on Christian forums every day of their life!

I can only summarize God provides them for our daily comic relief and entertainment, I'm glad you have a useful purpose after all

 

[SonOfTheWest]

Well the real difference is dramatic when you think about it.

I come here Christian Forums because I believe in God and there for like to hang with like minded people.

I would never hang out at a atheist forum, I find them all nonsensical and would never think of visiting a atheist forum let alone hanging on one of them every day of my life.

Yet ironically we see many atheists who consider God nonsense yet love to quote Church leaders and scriptures hanging on Christian forums every day of their life!

I can only summarize God provides them for our daily comic relief and entertainment, I'm glad you have a useful purpose after all

That sounds monumentally egotistical.

For the OP I think it can act as the seed of something more. But then I think this is true for a lot of things. There's a lot of cascading things at work. One can say "I don't believe tennis is a fun sport to watch." So it would be natural to assume if said person watches a sport it's not tennis. Yet it would not be as simple to say that if this hypothetical person watched say golf that "Because person X does not like tennis, they watch golf." in a real correlation/causation sense. We can see how they are related but we shouldn't distort the nature of that relationship.

 

[3rdHeaven]

That sounds monumentally egotistical.

For the OP I think it can act as the seed of something more. But then I think this is true for a lot of things. There's a lot of cascading things at work. One can say "I don't believe tennis is a fun sport to watch." So it would be natural to assume if said person watches a sport it's not tennis. Yet it would not be as simple to say that if this hypothetical person watched say golf that "Because person X does not like tennis, they watch golf." in a real correlation/causation sense. We can see how they are related but we shouldn't distort the nature of that relationship.

I'm going to need the english translation for this please..

 

[The Paul]

We all have our religions, and atheism is a religion too.

That's a really cute, popular, stupid phrase.

And it's easily dismissed by equally cute throw-aways like "bald isn't a hair color."

And that's not particularly insightful. But that's because it only rises to the level of the original comment.

If you'd like to actually discuss that notion: Go ahead and see if you can define "religion" in such a way that atheism is included without sounding either foolish or ignorant.

 

[3rdHeaven]

That's a really cute, popular, stupid phrase.

And it's easily dismissed by equally cute throw-aways like "bald isn't a hair color."

And that's not particularly insightful. But that's because it only rises to the level of the original comment.

If you'd like to actually discuss that notion: Go ahead and see if you can define "religion" in such a way that atheism is included without sounding either foolish or ignorant.

You mistakenly assume I care what atheists believe

 

[SonOfTheWest]

You mistakenly assume I care what atheists believe

Not really Paul's point. When people try to use words outside of what those words actually mean they should not be surprised when people look at them strangely for their gibberish. In this case, calling atheism a religion is gibberish and shows a severe lack of understanding what atheism as a word means and what religion as a word means.

 

[3rdHeaven]

Not really Paul's point. When people try to use words outside of what those words actually mean they should not be surprised when people look at them strangely for their gibberish. In this case, calling atheism a religion is gibberish and shows a severe lack of understanding what atheism as a word means and what religion as a word means.

So you speak for all atheists or just Paul?

Why do u assume I do not know what atheism is? Because I call it a religion, which it truly is?

 

[SonOfTheWest]

So you speak for all atheists or just Paul?

Why do u assume I do not know what atheism is? Because I call it a religion, which it truly is?

What? wordsoup de jur then.

 

[3rdHeaven]

What? wordsoup de jur then.

You made more sense this time then your last post at least

 

[SonOfTheWest]

You made more sense this time then your last post at least

A good book on sociology would probably help with your deficiency. You don't seem to either appreciate or understand word definitions however so I think just putting you on ignore is the better option.

 

[3rdHeaven]

A good book on sociology would probably help with your deficiency. You don't seem to either appreciate or understand word definitions however so I think just putting you on ignore is the better option.

But you know you won't

 

[quatona]

Well the real difference is dramatic when you think about it.

I come here Christian Forums because I believe in God and there for like to hang with like minded people.

I would never hang out at a atheist forum, I find them all nonsensical and would never think of visiting a atheist forum let alone hanging on one of them every day of my life.

Yet ironically we see many atheists who consider God nonsense yet love to quote Church leaders and scriptures hanging on Christian forums every day of their life!

And the irony lies in "I don´t do it, but they do it"? How´s that irony?

I can only summarize God provides them for our daily comic relief and entertainment, I'm glad you have a useful purpose after all

 

[jackmt]

yeh ur right. and when someone says oh theres this god and u gota worship him - they have the burden of showing evidence.

but when they say oh u cant really see or hear him (unless ur pentacostal) but if you dont believe him you are a bad nonbeliever who deserves to go to hell and have the same fat as a baby murderer.

all i know is - i didnt spend my life NOT killing and raping, to not get sky cake!

The fact that some believers are ignoramuses does not relieve anyone of his responsibility to God, any more than an ignoramus of an atheist will cause me to believe in God. Man is by nature at enmity with God. A man will not go to hell because of his sins (though his place in hell may be determined by them). Rather, he will go because he by his nature wants nothing to do with God and there is no other place for him. A man will believe what he needs to believe in order to live his life the way he wants to. By the grace of God, some can recognize their need of Him.

 

[Tinker Grey]

You believe "I lack belief in God" right? Therefore you have a belief, you affirm the proposition "I lack belief in God".


If you don't believe a lack of belief can cause an action, maybe it is a belief about a lack of belief that causes action. When you say "I am an atheist" if is not the lack of belif that is the cause, but the belief "I lack belief in God" that is the cause. But that raises the question, what caused the initial belief about a lack of belief?


What?


You say "I lack belief" and know it, and the matarial condition of that is a lack of belief. If you deny this material condition is a cause, that you have an uncaused belief that you lack belief. Or a belief about a statee of affairs that is causally independent of the state of affairs itself. How odd?
There is the difference between an occurent and a dispositional belifef in philosophy. When I actually psychologically affirm the proposition "I am male" I have an occurent belief, but if I am not expressing the belief I have what is called a dispositional belief that I am male because I am disposed to believe it if prompted. Similarly you may either express, or be disposed to believe "I lack belief in God".


BTW being a wealk atheist (lacking belief in God) is usually seen as a response to contemplation of "Do I believe in God?" It is not like a lack of belief in something unheard of like a lack of belief in "The pink satire 10923 in New York, Columbia" before anyone even contemplated the expression. There has in weak atheism been an examination of one's beliefs, and a prior contemplation of the virtues of a God-concept, and it is discovered that you do not believe in God. This lack is the cause of the expression "I lack belief", just as a missing purse might cause the expression "My purse is gone!" after one looks for but does not find one's purse.

A belief is as much an object of perception as a purse, and if preception of a missing purse can cause action so can perception of a lack of belief. At least, it can cause one to say "I lack belief" just as ift can cause one to say "My purse is missing."

Matthew 6:19-21
“19 Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." bible gateway

I think I finally understand what has been bothering me about your line of inquiry. I think we are talking passed each other. That is, we have an unintentional equivocation.

I'll grant that you are using the word cause in a way consistent with the way some philosophers do. Even if I granted their points, which I don't necessarily, this isn't the way I'm using the word cause.

While it may be necessary for there to be an absence of belief to observe that absence, it isn't a motivator. It is in this sense that I am using the word cause. What is it that motivates us? Can non-belief motivate? Or is it only belief that motivates.

As to what I'll call the philosopher's cause, saying that because something is necessary it is a cause seems a strange use of the word cause. Perhaps, it is jargon. In any case, it seems like that because air is necessary to breathe, it is a cause of our breathing.

If you'd like to discuss this line of thought further, I'd like to suggest another thread.

 

[Tinker Grey]

We all have our religions, and atheism is a religion too.

there is no such thing as non-belief unless your a rock or some other non-living being.

This thread is about what causes behavior. Atheism was an example of non-belief. If you disagree with that, use non-belief in unicorns and discuss whether such non-belief can cause action.

If you want to discuss your perceptions of atheism, please start another thread.