Can it be that Space is the Holy Spirit?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Trusting and relying on the Father to accomplish everything related to Salvatin in this life and in the next
is what is required and what is important. Understanding things comes way later , if ever ..... (most things humans think of just drop away after they are born again of the Father's Will from Heaven)

Maybe it is literal, maybe it isn't.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That which is spiritual cannot ever be comprehended by the natural mind.

When all the universe is rolled up, all the elements melted and destroyed by fire,

Yahweh and Yeshua and Ekklesia and the angels will continue in the new heavens and the new earth.

Imagine the universe, with all the matter inside. Where all the planets, stars, and energy they produce reside. Take the matter away, what remains? Even the energy can't continue to gain or elicit more energy. There is nothing left, Space. Now imagine the universe with all the matter inside and take Space away. What remains?

How could God not have value in Space? It touches everything. It's one thing, one "solid" piece of something that allows everything. Think before you jump to conclusions, no offense.

 

[John 1720]

I looked into the link. Microwaves are light waves, which cooperates with my understanding that light can only reach so far. But I will look more into it!

Hi Again Tim,
Light waves are made up of quantum packets of photons. They really don't disapate but travel across the entire universe. That is why when we look at the night sky we are looking into the past. The light from those stars has taken many years to reach our eyes and the stronger the telescopes the more we are able to see back into the farthest reaches of the universe and its ancient state. However, near absolue zero light itself can be slowed down as all molecular and atomic particles do. Maybe this is what you are thinking of?

• Slowing the Speed of Light to Zero

In Christ, John 17:20

 

[Halbhh]

.
Hi Tim,
Space did not exist before the universe, nor does space exist without time. That is why scientists, since the advent of the theory of Relativity, call it space-time. Both time and space began at the instance of universe coming into being - on that point both theologians and scientists seem to agree, although the theologians proposed that a couple of milennia before the astrophysicists.
When we speak of the Spirit we are speaking of the eternal, immutable, omnipotent Spirit of God. He is before all time and space, just as the eternal transcends time - if that makes sense to you.
In Christ,
John 17:20

Hello brother, I wonder if you may be someone that enjoys astronomy/astrophysics articles (a long time interest of mine). At one time we started an astronomy news thread (though it's been a while since posting in it, and a lot of interesting stuff has happened lately).
Astronomy News

 

[Halbhh]

I looked into the link. Microwaves are light waves, which cooperates with my understanding that light can only reach so far. But I will look more into it!

It's been a while since it was active, but we have a good Astronomy News thread I'd be enjoying to continue:
Astronomy News

 

[Halbhh]

Hi Again Tim,
Light waves are made up of quantum packets of photons. They really don't disapate but travel across the entire universe. That is why when we look at the night sky we are looking into the past. The light from those stars has taken many years to reach our eyes and the stronger the telescopes the more we are able to see back into the farthest reaches of the universe and its ancient state. However, near absolue zero light itself can be slowed down as all molecular and atomic particles do. Maybe this is what you are thinking of?

• Slowing the Speed of Light to Zero

In Christ, John 17:20

That's a pretty interesting experiement. It raised a couple of interesting questions in my mind, and I decided I want to read some about why (not how much, but why) light slows down in certain mediums to begin with (the much older and well known phenomena).

...well, it only took a few seconds for the search page to give a very general answer which was the one I expected: "That is because photons interact with atoms, which repeatedly absorb and re-emit them to the same direction." Ok, is that all there is to it? If so, the consendate in your linked article is just a more extreme case of only this then possibly.

e.g. -- Why does the light travel slower in denser medium?
"The simplest picture is that light always travels at the speed of light. But in a material it travels at the speed of light until it hits an atom. It is then absorbed and re-emitted in the same direction, which takes a small amount of time.
The more this happens, the slower the effective average speed."

 

[Hieronymus]

I am a believer, but I did not know where else to post this topic.

I must first quote Genesis 1:1
Space had to exist before anything else could exist.

Space can be considered to be a matrix of some sorts, in which particles can exist.
Space is not nothing, but it can be "empty".
As for Genesis 1:1, it seems to me these are the 2 realms, namely the physical and the spiritual.

But i don't see a reason anymore to force myself to read the first verses (in particular) of Genesis as a literal scientific report.
There seem to be parallels with the Marduk creation folklore, which is possibly older, considering the first books in the Bible are often called the books of Moses.

Either way, i don't think God is dependent on, or bound by 'space' or anything that He created.
Even 'time' is considered an aspect of God's Creation.

One day we will find out though.
Looking forward to that.

 

[TimMcCollum]

Hi Again Tim,
Light waves are made up of quantum packets of photons. They really don't disapate but travel across the entire universe. That is why when we look at the night sky we are looking into the past. The light from those stars has taken many years to reach our eyes and the stronger the telescopes the more we are able to see back into the farthest reaches of the universe and its ancient state. However, near absolue zero light itself can be slowed down as all molecular and atomic particles do. Maybe this is what you are thinking of?

• Slowing the Speed of Light to Zero

In Christ, John 17:20

No, I'm thinking of the photons becoming so spread out over such vast distances that we can't view the light anymore. Either that, or the photon wave loses its strength at a certain point. Isn't it strange that the shape of the universe as you see it is nearly symmetrical? Wouldn't an explosion jump out in varying directions? Just one thing to think about.

 

[TimMcCollum]

It's been a while since it was active, but we have a good Astronomy News thread I'd be enjoying to continue:
Astronomy News

I took an astronomy class in college, totally blew my mind. It paled in comparison to seeing the setting sun with Venus next to it while having the moon and Jupiter beside each other at the same time. That moment on the lake just made me decide to refuse anything other than God's words He instilled me.

 

[TimMcCollum]

Space can be considered to be a matrix of some sorts, in which particles can exist.
Space is not nothing, but it can be "empty".
As for Genesis 1:1, it seems to me these are the 2 realms, namely the physical and the spiritual.

But i don't see a reason anymore to force myself to read the first verses (in particular) of Genesis as a literal scientific report.
There seem to be parallels with the Marduk creation folklore, which is possibly older, considering the first books in the Bible are often called the books of Moses.

Either way, i don't think God is dependent on, or bound by 'space' or anything that He created.
Even 'time' is considered an aspect of God's Creation.

One day we will find out though.
Looking forward to that.

I like to think of Space as His helper, a spirit of sorts. She permeates and touches all beings and things in the universe. Why wouldn't Space be theologically important?

 

[John 1720]

That's a pretty interesting experiement. It raised a couple of interesting questions in my mind, and I decided I want to read some about why (not how much, but why) light slows down in certain mediums to begin with (the much older and well known phenomena).

...well, it only took a few seconds for the search page to give a very general answer which was the one I expected: "That is because photons interact with atoms, which repeatedly absorb and re-emit them to the same direction." Ok, is that all there is to it? If so, the consendate in your linked article is just a more extreme case of only this then possibly.

e.g. -- Why does the light travel slower in denser medium?
"The simplest picture is that light always travels at the speed of light. But in a material it travels at the speed of light until it hits an atom. It is then absorbed and re-emitted in the same direction, which takes a small amount of time.
The more this happens, the slower the effective average speed."

Yes, I agree that photons continue to travel at the speed of light except when they encounter collisions with other atoms. Taking it down to absolute zero would then inhibit the blocking atoms from movement; becoming a better wall if you will allow me that analogy. Interesting that even though photon momentum is halted, once the blocking atoms are removed, they pick up again in the same vector at light speed.

 

[Hieronymus]

I like to think of Space as His helper, a spirit of sorts. She permeates and touches all beings and things in the universe. Why wouldn't Space be theologically important?

Why would it be?

 

[Bobber]

Interesting way you've put it Tom but let me ask you....Why does it really matter? God is EVERYWHERE so what do we learn to be of any benefit to define it as an absolute of how it's set up? If you get my meaning. If Christians believe God is omnipresent should we really come into differences about a subject of space? I just thank God that he is everywhere present. So what's the difference?

 

[John 1720]

No, I'm thinking of the photons becoming so spread out over such vast distances that we can't view the light anymore. Either that, or the photon wave loses its strength at a certain point. Isn't it strange that the shape of the universe as you see it is nearly symmetrical? Wouldn't an explosion jump out in varying directions? Just one thing to think about.

To have an explosion you need some sort of physical mass. But if you have mass then you already have space-time, which didn't exist. The universe came into being ex-nihlo. It is beyond the capacity of science to tell us what existed before time and space came into being. They may get us back to the first few femptoseconds of existence but they cannot get beyond the physical realm. That is because it is beyond the domain they can work within. This is where, in my view, that so many of them seem to go off the rails. I believe this is mainly because of bias that they will not admit an eternal omnipotent Creator is behind Creation and their most plausible hypothesis.
In Christ, John 17:20

 

[John 1720]

Yes, I agree that photons continue to travel at the speed of light except when they encounter collisions with other atoms. Taking it down to absolute zero would then inhibit the blocking atoms from movement; becoming a better wall if you will allow me that analogy. Interesting that even though photon momentum is halted, once the blocking atoms are removed, they pick up again in the same vector at light speed.

Interesting of course, because we know a body in motion tends to stay in motion and a body at rest tends to stay at rest, unless acted upon by an outside force-
Sorry Newton: photons excluded of course!
It does begs the question as to why no force is required for them, once unblocked, to go to light speed once again. We are told it is because a massless particle does not react with the Higgs field - thus the Newtonian exception clause but I find that logically unsatisfying and think we could better understand the phenomena.

 

[redleghunter]

Maybe it is literal, maybe it isn't.

Huh

 

[TimMcCollum]

Why would it be?

It's something you can feel when you're with Her. Kind of like God.

 

[TimMcCollum]

Interesting way you've put it Tom but let me ask you....Why does it really matter? God is EVERYWHERE so what do we learn to be of any benefit to define it as an absolute of how it's set up? If you get my meaning. If Christians believe God is omnipresent should we really come into differences about a subject of space? I just thank God that he is everywhere present. So what's the difference?

One of the things They've told me is Heaven exists past Space. She is the gateway. God can come in and out whenever He wishes. Just makes sense.

 

[TimMcCollum]

To have an explosion you need some sort of physical mass. But if you have mass then you already have space-time, which didn't exist. The universe came into being ex-nihlo. It is beyond the capacity of science to tell us what existed before time and space came into being. They may get us back to the first few femptoseconds of existence but they cannot get beyond the physical realm. That is because it is beyond the domain they can work within. This is where, in my view, that so many of them seem to go off the rails. I believe this is mainly because of bias that they will not admit an eternal omnipotent Creator is behind Creation and their most plausible hypothesis.
In Christ, John 17:20

We just have to agree to disagree my friend. For you the Big Bang happened, for me it's impossible.

 

[aiki]

I must first quote Genesis 1:1
Space had to exist before anything else could exist.

No, God did. He had to pre-exist everything else. We know also from the findings of mainstream cosmology that the universe began to exist a finite time ago in the past and that when it exploded outward from the singularity that birthed it, time, space, matter and energy all came into existence simultaneously.

Then there's John 14:15-17
Specifically, when Jesus speaks of the Spirit being unseen and dwelling within us. As we all hopefully know by now, we are over 99% Space. It's a being that we exist inside of, and touches all beings. She guides me whilst I write at this moment.

She? No where in Scripture is the Holy Spirit ever referred to in feminine terms. As the Bible repeatedly indicates, the Holy Spirit is a he. (John 14:26; John 16:7-8; John 16:13-15, etc.)

Finally, in 1 Samuel 10:9-10 the Spirit touched Saul's heart. I've felt this before, and I know I'm not alone. It's an intense feeling that draws us to do something, and I couldn't imagine Space not having something to do with it. It would make so much more sense that Space is a "living" being who helps God fulfill His desires.

The Holy Spirit, we are told in Scripture convicts people of sin, illuminates their minds to God's truth, comforts them in times of trouble and tragedy, strengthens them in difficulty and temptation, puts to death the deeds of the flesh, and so on. He does not only - or primarily - give believers "intense feelings that draw them to do something." Very often He speaks very quietly - so quietly that unless we are quiet, still and undistracted, we cannot hear him. As well, he acts upon us simply by reminding us of God's truth, the word of God, drawing our minds to it and settling our hearts upon it. There may or may not be any accompanying feeling at all when he does.

Why would space have anything directly to do with our experience of the Holy Spirit? Just because you can't imagine it not having something do with him doesn't mean space actually does.

The Holy Spirit is not Space. Space is a created thing that began to exist; the Holy Spirit is not. Space cannot be grieved (Ephesians 4:30), or teach and remind (John 14:26; 1 Cor. 2:13), or speak and make decisions (Acts 8:29; Acts 13:2; Acts 15:28), or possess a mind (Romans 8:26-27). The Holy Spirit is capable of all these things, however.