in other words, those who don't allow challenges, can't challenge, or say they disbelieve silly things, or they do the 'wrong" that they say i do. See my point?
"When you point a finger at me in such a way for doing the very thing you/yourself are doing, you are pointing one back at yourself," in other words. Yes ? Is that the point ? Hippocrisy/etc ?
I see that you are TRYING to make a point, but it also seems that you are the one trying to make and enforce it ... so it's not really a fact. It's more like a non-sequiter. It may appear logical, but it's not, because there are examples that show it's logic falls apart. You, yourself, are such an example that breaks the very idea lol. You can claim to believe in many things while dismissing others.
Even if a person who calls another person a name for doing the very thing they are doing, and this can be shown ... it doesn't necessarily negate either's claims. This is what is known as an ad hominem fallacy in an argument, specifically it's probably a tu quoque variety.
but do you think crying statues are silly?
Personally ? For the most part, I wouldn't use the word silly ... I think they are often a serious manifestation from other spirits that can be convincingly deceptive. There are other things I would call "silly" which I would still classify as serious deceptions, however lol.
What I don't find "silly", are the
soul's and hearts of the people involved.
I will get back to this here in this next part, however, because I left a door open I want to explain ...
besides, people don't like me challenging, but if you are admittedly a challenger, fine, at least then you are being true to your theology, but if one calls others names, for challenging, then challenges, what does that make him?
But I don't see where you are *challenging* lol. To me, a challenge involves specifically calling someone out, and asking them to
prove their stance. Scripture battles are not what I would consider proof either. Nor are ad hominem attempts to discredit.
Now ... lemme give an example of something I found ridiculous, on the level of "glitter and crying statues" (to parallel to your own opinions), and why it gave me a moment of pause on how I handled it. And I did not pause because of "Don't touch the Lord's anointed," and all of that. I'm not a fan of Jedi mind tricks lol.
I know there have been some long posts in your thread, but hopefully you'll bare with me a sec:
Many years ago, I befriended a guy that was going to a church I attended named Alex (name change for privacy). We talked in some of the groups and such, and this guy knew scriptures inside and out, seemed to be "on fire" and all of that, etc. Always level headed, calm, and he had a scriptural answer for everything. We were friends in "church", but hadn't gotten together outside of it.
Well one group meeting, he wanted to exchange numbers, to hang out sometime, and so I did. A few days later or so, he called wanting to meet up with me ... he had something important to tell me and go over with me, and wanted to hang out. We set a time, and I told him he could come over to my apartment, and I told him where I lived, etc
Well, the day he was supposed to come over, I had a pit-in-my-stomach feeling. A FEELING. I recognized it as such. But what I couldn't explain, was the origin of it. And as it got closer to him coming, I started to recognize what I believed was the Spirit leading me, telling me to tell him something specifically: "Take two pills and call me in the morning."
I mean, clear as day ... I was supposed to tell him this when he showed up at my door. And after that, I actually thought I was supposed to send him on his way and literally, have him call me in the morning. It seemed strange, of course ... but it was strong, and very clear.
So he shows up at the door, all smiles, and I said hi, and he started to try and come in ... and I said, "Well wait. This will sound strange to you no doubt, but ... I think God wants me to tell you something ? Maybe the Spirit is showing me something ? Its this: "Take two pills and call me in the morning," and I think you're supposed to go back home and do just that, call me in the morning."
Well his face lit up like a Christmas tree ... all smiles, like he had just seen an angel descending in front of him.
"I know what that means !!! I know what that means ! Praise the Lord, He has answered me ! I know what that means ! I want to tell you !" and I said, "No no ... call me in the morning I think. Lemme know tomorrow lol ..." So he left, on cloud nine.
I was still a bit confused as to what it meant, but I was happy that it at least MEANT something to him.
So the next day, he calls, and says he wants to meet me at HIS house. He wants to share with me what God has shown him. Man, was I excited ! Now HE was join to show ME something ! Awesome !
So I drive over to his house, first time there of course ... and as I drive up, I see him standing out on the street. He is holding his bible, and crying and sobbing so much that I could visibly see the snot and spit drooling from his mouth and nose. He is wearing ragged clothes (I wasn't use to seeing him in these, not that it mattered, it was just different from the norm). And he is apparently preaching to the sky, striking poses like you would see from "the holy people" of old movies and such. He sees me, almost falls to his knees, but stops himself. I park, and watch him walk towards me, and he's repeating verses over and over .... snot dripping everywhere, crying ....
Instead of getting out of my car, he apparently is coming over to my passenger side. He gets in, and starts crying harder, shouting praises to the Lord and such.
I told him to calm down, and tell me what is going on.
He begins to tell me that I have to take him to the nearest TV station, that he has an important message for the world, and IIRC, he is a prophet of this message. The message, is this: the evil forces of the world are about to remove all medicines in the US that have the active ingredients in Sudafed in them from the stores and shelves, and if this happens, God's people will not receive the Holy Spirit, because to receive the Holy Spirit, we all need those active ingredients in Sudafed. Without Sudafed, we will be in darkness and not receive the Holy Spirit. For quite some time now, God had been showing him this ... how important those drugs were in order to experience and receive the Spirit, and Alex was confused about how much he was supposed to take in order to please the Lord, what specific dosage. The day before when he came over to meet me at my apartment, that night he was going to experiment and take as many as possible ... and after I gave him the message to "take two pills and call me in the morning," he knew that if he had taken the whole bottle, he would have overdosed or harmed himself. So he only took two. He also knew since God showed me that word, that he could trust me, and that I wouldn't lead him astray ;-) And now, he needed me to take him to the closest station (I actually knew one that was within 10 miles, major metropolitan area). And there he would give his message to the world, and he thanked me for helping him not to overdose and harm his body, and for being obedient.
I heard all he had to say ... and I sat there in utter disbelief haha. I mean, I had heard some insane things ... but, we needed Sudafed to have the Holy Spirit ? It became clear in an instant, that Alex was addicted to drugs, which explained a lot of his behavior ...
At first, I was going to tell him that we weren't going to go to the station, and that if he trusted me, then I was going to tell him he was deluded and deceived. But instead, I had what I believed was the Spirit again show me to drive him to the station ... that I was with him, and it would be okay. So I just let him talk, and tell me more about his details of the Sudafed, the conspiracy, the Holy Spirit, etc. IOW, I got to KNOW him. And we drove to the station ... we got there, it was closed
Wasn't even open.
He looked so disappointed, heart broken. And that's when I felt it was okay to tell him that I believed the station was closed for a reason ... and that I had been told the "take 2 pills" thing for a reason ... and it was because God loved him, and was being merciful on him, but he was deluded about the Sudafed thing. It wasn't necessary for the Holy Spirit. He wasn't hearing God on this one, and that if he accepted it, I could help him perhaps, if he continued to trust me.
He started to make his case, and started to deny he was deluded of course ... but that's when I reminded him that he also believed God had spoken to me, and that he could trust me, and I told him I believed I was supposed to drive him to the station ... and yet it was closed, and I took that as a sign. He started to listen to me some, you could see it ... you could see his wheels started turning. "Could I really be wrong ?"
Now here's the thing ... my natural inclination would have been to label his ideas ridiculous. And label his "beliefs" as insane and deluded. I would have written him off had I known such things perhaps ... such silly things which obviously were "not of God". But that wouldn't have done anything for this guy's SOUL and HEART. I would have ridiculed his ideas, and his beliefs, and what he thought was of God ... and would have been attacking his heart at the same time. His heart was in that treasure. And instead of being part of those things which attacked him and only helped push him farther into deception, by God's grace ... I was allowed to be part of something that not only offered him a chance to see his error, but also a chance to have God DEMONSTRATE His LOVE for him at the same time, through using someone like me ... and instead of accusing him and using my freedom to ridicule stuff, I was allowed to be part of a solution for this man.
See .... the God I know is able to REDEEM the silly and ridiculous things. He can redeem the one entrapped by evil, and use those very things which are wayward, silly, deceptions, to show His love for us and his grace and mercy towards us.
I have a friend in high school, whose father committed suicide, and so he went without a father. He had no religion or faith ... but out of nowhere, he eventually dove headfirst into a version of Orthodoxy. Serious, hard core Orthodoxy. One of the draws, imo, was that one of the "father's" took him under his wing, and provided that role for him that he never had. And nothing anyone could say to him, would change his mind about the path he was taking. He claimed to see a statue of mary blink at him ... it was the only miracle he claimed to see. Now, to me that was ridiculous. It was a deception at work. But I LOVED him. He was my friend. And he wasn't listening to me. What was more important to me than the deceptions, were his heart and soul ... and I did not die for him. Jesus died for him. And I was not his God. God was his God. So it wasn't about touching the "Lord's anointed". It was about touching the heart of someone whom the Lord died for. And his heart was wrapped up in those things I found ridiculous.
I'm not trying to one-up you ... only show you that it's not as black and white as you are making it. Not everyone who is hesitant to "take someone down" or challenge someone, is hesitant because they are afraid of being a hippocrite, or touching the Lord's anointed, or some such. Some of us WANT to challenge and get rid of ridiculous deceptions, but we want to be part of the solution that helps give grace, mercy, love, freedom, and light to the heart that is ensnared in such things. It's not always about the glitter and the statues, it's about those whose hearts are wrapped up in them, and they protect them from those who do not
honor or respect their hearts.
And sometimes, some of us DO want to see evil destroyed "because it is evil", or for the sake of justice, etc. I don't know that I agree the way to go about that is to attack the humans flesh and blood, however. Even if I *want* to lol. I appreciate freedom, and grace, but I'd like to learn more about how to handle the
people involved, if not for my own sake or theirs, out of respect for the Lord if nothing else.
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