Can God not forgive us of our sins even when we ask to be forgiven?

[Loveaboveall]

Is is possible that there is something we could do or not do, that would prevent God from forgiving us of our sins even when we repent of them and ask for forgiveness?

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

Very good question, and I look forward to hearing some other replies.

Personally, from my understanding..as long as we're sincere in our repenting and motives for doing so, we are forgiven on the spot.

Was there any particular examples you had in mind when you said something we could do? (Like repeating the sin, or a certain type of sin?)

 

[annie1speed]

We are to ask in faith ... but if we ask half-heartedly maybe.... not truly believing that our prayer will be answered. Is this where you were going here?

 

[Loveaboveall]

Here is a text to think about:

Matthew 6:12

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

 

[annie1speed]

Is this related to the first question?

 

[woobadooba]

Here is a text to think about:

Matthew 6:12

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Good point!

And here is another one...

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
(Mat 6:14-15)

It's interesting how some people come in here merely to judge certain members on their so-called inability to love like Jesus, as if to suggest that they understand His love more than these, while spending very little time, if any at all, showing those of us whom they despise what His love looks like!

 

[ricker]

Here is a text to think about:

Matthew 6:12

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

We can't forgive others in the magnatude that God forgives us. This has to be a statement declaring as Christians we are to be so humbled by the free gift of God's forgiveness, we will necessarily forgive and do good to those who sin against us. It is a sign of our Christian walk with the Spirit.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Personally, from my understanding..as long as we're sincere in our repenting and motives for doing so, we are forgiven on the spot.

How do you assess "sincerity" given the fact that none of us can simply MAKE ourselves "stop sinning" on the spot? If we could do that, we would not need a Saviour, correct? Yet it seems there bes this kink in salvation and soteriology as SOME understand it -- that in order to "prove" the "sincerity" of your repentance you must demonstrate perfection. The reasoning goes like this: "well if you bes really sincere then you would stop doing that sin; if you don't stop doing it, that just proves you bes not sincere." One of these days MUST make a statistical study on how many ppls' experience being harassed or overtaken by demons begins with stuff like this .... ANYWAY point being, none of us bes perfect. Everyone sins and everyone messes up. Sometimes totally on accident and other times in a moment of weakness making a bad choice or something but EVERYONE does it. The Bible even says if you deny this you bes a liar!! (1 John 1:8). (Say didn't JESUS take care of the SIN issue ANYWAY???) =======> So exactly HOW should one assess whether one bes "sincere" or not??? In other words clearly being POWERLESS (which the Bible says we bes) should not be regarded the equivalent of being INSINCERE should it??? Just because a person cannot snap their fingers and instantaneously NEVER do "X" again does NOT mean they would not GLADLY, for example, swallow a pill that would make them never do "X" again, or GLADLY say YES if God came to them and proposed a miracle what would mean they would never do "X" again. You know ppls say things like "give it to God" and "surrender to the Lord" but then when the "thing" does not immediately vanish or cease to be an issue they always want to try to say you never really gave it. Well in order to GIVE something to someone else, THEY ALSO have a part to play -- they have to ACCEPT it and PICK IT UP and CLAIM IT THEIRS -- just like ppls bes told to do with salvation, yeah? Well if God does not pick up or claim as His what bes given to Him, how then can the person be blamed? Why do ppls say that kind of mind-poisoning nonsense, like "you didn't REALLY give that to God -- you bes NOT sincere!" when you givesy as sincere as you can but you cannot MAKE God take it and you cannot wave some magick wand to make YOURSELF free of it, so what then??? Why should someone's "sincerity" be judged lacking or missing by the same lack of perfection we ALL share???? Would you wish YOURS judged that way???

 

[Loveaboveall]

Matt 18:34-35 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Mark 11:25-26 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:


How do you interpret these verses? Do we have to forgive to be saved? Is this an act of works? If so how do we reconcile this with "justification by faith, not works"? Is it possible for us to forgive without Christ in our hearts? Does this mean that God saves us before He forgives us of our sins?

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Is is possible that there is something we could do or not do, that would prevent God from forgiving us of our sins even when we repent of them and ask for forgiveness?

Yes.
You could be Moriah.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

How do you interpret these verses? Do we have to forgive to be saved? Is this an act of works? If so how do we reconcile this with "justification by faith, not works"? Is it possible for us to forgive without Christ in our hearts? Does this mean that God saves us before He forgives us of our sins?

Oh, you wanted to split theological hairs. Sorry, it misunderstood your question in that case.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

It's interesting how some people come in here merely to judge certain members on their so-called inability to love like Jesus, as if to suggest that they understand His love more than these, while spending very little time, if any at all, showing those of us whom they despise what His love looks like!

Well one good turn deserves another. Those feeling judged on their inability to LOVE like Jesus bes generally the same ones which have judged OTHERS on THEIR so-called inability to LIVE like Jesus.

 

[woobadooba]

Well one good turn deserves another. Those being judged on their inability to LOVE like Jesus bes generally the ones which have judged OTHERS on THEIR so-called inability to LIVE like Jesus.

And you are here for what reason???

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

And you are here for what reason???

To forgive you.

 

[woobadooba]

To forgive you.

You don't have to remind me of my past to do that.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

You don't have to remind me of my past to do that.

Forgiveness has no sense of time. All is now, and either IS or IS NOT.

 

[annie1speed]

Matt 18:34-35 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Look at verses 32 and 33: Then his lord summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked slave! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. Should you not have had mercy on your fellow slave, as I had mercy on you?

Mark 11:25-26 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Verse 36 gives a little more context: "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

How do you interpret these verses?

All of these passages hold God's mercy up for us to see how truly unmerciful we are in comparison.

Do we have to forgive to be saved?

If holding a grudge or having an unforgiving spirit is sinful, then we must repent of this sin to be saved.
What is repentence but a turning away from sin? It may be better put that we have to forgive to STAY saved perhaps.

I have a question - Do we have to be perfect to be saved?

Is this an act of works?

No, but wait - if one says "Well, I guess I'll have to forgive you because if I don't I won't get to go to Heaven", is that really forgiveness? I don't think so. But if we develop the habit of looking at others and seeing in them another soul that Jesus died for and show forbearance and patience with that person, that is really forgiveness. But it wasn't a WORK, it was the development of an ATTITUDE.

If so how do we reconcile this with "justification by faith, not works"?

True forgiveness is not a WORK.

Is it possible for us to forgive without Christ in our hearts?

Yes.

Does this mean that God saves us before He forgives us of our sins?

No.

So do we have to forgive to be saved?

You mean do we have to forgive others before Jesus can forgive us? I'm dizzy..... There's some circular logic going on around here.

A wise friend once told me that you can't go to Heaven while you're carrying a grudge. If we forgive just so we can be saved, wouldn't that be like goal-oriented forgiveness? Would that even be true forgiveness if we did it just for that reason?

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

How do you assess "sincerity" given the fact that none of us can simply MAKE ourselves "stop sinning" on the spot? If we could do that, we would not need a Saviour, correct? Yet it seems there bes this kink in salvation and soteriology as SOME understand it -- that in order to "prove" the "sincerity" of your repentance you must demonstrate perfection. The reasoning goes like this: "well if you bes really sincere then you would stop doing that sin; if you don't stop doing it, that just proves you bes not sincere." One of these days MUST make a statistical study on how many ppls' experience being harassed or overtaken by demons begins with stuff like this .... ANYWAY point being, none of us bes perfect. Everyone sins and everyone messes up. Sometimes totally on accident and other times in a moment of weakness making a bad choice or something but EVERYONE does it. The Bible even says if you deny this you bes a liar!! (1 John 1:8). (Say didn't JESUS take care of the SIN issue ANYWAY???) =======> So exactly HOW should one assess whether one bes "sincere" or not??? In other words clearly being POWERLESS (which the Bible says we bes) should not be regarded the equivalent of being INSINCERE should it??? Just because a person cannot snap their fingers and instantaneously NEVER do "X" again does NOT mean they would not GLADLY, for example, swallow a pill that would make them never do "X" again, or GLADLY say YES if God came to them and proposed a miracle what would mean they would never do "X" again. You know ppls say things like "give it to God" and "surrender to the Lord" but then when the "thing" does not immediately vanish or cease to be an issue they always want to try to say you never really gave it. Well in order to GIVE something to someone else, THEY ALSO have a part to play -- they have to ACCEPT it and PICK IT UP and CLAIM IT THEIRS -- just like ppls bes told to do with salvation, yeah? Well if God does not pick up or claim as His what bes given to Him, how then can the person be blamed? Why do ppls say that kind of mind-poisoning nonsense, like "you didn't REALLY give that to God -- you bes NOT sincere!" when you givesy as sincere as you can but you cannot MAKE God take it and you cannot wave some magick wand to make YOURSELF free of it, so what then??? Why should someone's "sincerity" be judged lacking or missing by the same lack of perfection we ALL share???? Would you wish YOURS judged that way???

I only have a quick moment, but I thought I'd answer this breifly.

By sincere, I meant simply that at the moment you are repenting you sincerely mean it. Whether you sin again or not is not what matters in that moment, rather what matters is whether you mean that you're sorry. One can repent simply for self gain, that they still can go to heaven. One can also repent with full intention of continuing the sin after, and thusly taking it for granted.

A sincere repentance is the same as a sincere apology. At that moment it grieves your heart that you did this thing you are repenting for, and wish to be forgiven and wish to have help to change.

10 minutes later, you could sin again and do the same thing. But, God knows your heart and knows if you mean it.

Blessings and Love,
Sarah

*runs off to bed, already waaay late*

 

[Loveaboveall]

Annie,

If making a concious decision to forgive someone is not a work than what do you define as a "work" that Paul was talking about? Does this mean that we have a part to play in our salvation? Or is salvation all about what God does for us with us having no part to play? How does one reconcile these points of views with this topic of forgiveness?

 

[annie1speed]

If making a concious decision to forgive someone is not a work than what do you define as a "work" that Paul was talking about?

I'm not sure where you are referring to. What verse? Or did I miss it in your post?

Does this mean that we have a part to play in our salvation?

We do have a part to play in our salvation.

Or is salvation all about what God does for us with us having no part to play?

The part we play is we accept the terms of our salvation - the terms of the new covenant.

If I have a gift for you, and I hand it to you, you don't have the gift until you reach out to take it from me, until you accept my gift.

Jesus stands at the door and knocks. He doesn't kick the door in and come into our hearts. We must open the door - our hearts - and let Him in. I do not view this as a 'work' however.

How does one reconcile these points of views with this topic of forgiveness?

Forgiving someone can be a one way action. I can forgive someone whether or not they ask me to. The prodigal son's father had forgiven him without him asking for forgiveness. He didn't even let his son finish his little speech he had planned out before making it clear he was welcomed home. Jesus forgave those who crucified Him when He said 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do'. Can Jesus/God forgive us without our asking also? I reserve the right to change my answer after sleeping on it, but right now I'm thinking yes.

Do you think that is what is meant by those three verses you asked about. We are to forgive like God forgives - which is giving forgiveness without, or before we are asked to forgive someone.

Ah, yes grasshopper I think I got it. Snatch these pebbles from my hand! and all that stuff. Do I get my gold star? Or were you going somewhere else with this?

Hey ..... you didn't answer all of my questions..... did you?