Can free will exist with predestination?

[ty597]

This was a question that came up in my youth group that I was wondering about. Please throw in your input.

 

[Captain_Jack_Sparrow]

Wrong forum I think.

 

[Bushido216]

Depends.

Do you mean that God knows what you are going to do, or God is going to make you do something.

 

[Biarien]

God knowing what we're going to do doesn't mean we don't have a choice...

 

[Bulldog]

What does this have to do with Creation Science and Theistic Evoluton?

To answer your question, it depends.

 

[Biarien]

What does this have to do with Creation Science and Theistic Evoluton?

It's probably just the wrong forum. It happens.

 

[Curt]

This was a question that came up in my youth group that I was wondering about. Please throw in your input.

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Pet 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Sam 14:14
14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.
Job 37:24
24 Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.

Reply

Predestination=God's foreknowledge of every ones freewill choices.

 

[Bushido216]

Curt, by Predestination the OP means that God decides where you're going to go and what you're going to do before you can do it. This is different from God knowing what you're going to do before you do it.

 

[Curt]

Curt, by Predestination the OP means that God decides where you're going to go and what you're going to do before you can do it. This is different from God knowing what you're going to do before you do it.

Totally your opinion, The Bible clearly defines Predestination, election etc. as His forknowledge of every freewill choice everyone will ever make, and those choices determine where there eternal residence will be. And that is not just an opinion its a fact. Read the blessings and cursings in Deuteronomy 11 and you can find out for yourself what your choices are. And you can by exercising that freewill choice predetermine your own eternal residence.

 

[Bushido216]

You can't switch from the modern vernacular to ancient usage in the same post. Either you don't know what you're doing or you're trying to confuse me.

Regardless, predestination in the modern sense means that God arbitrarily decides who is going to Hell and who to Heaven, and that His choice shows up in our actions.

Knowledge a priori means that God doesn't take an action in what we do, he only knows what is going to happen.

In the modern sense, you are wrong. Not only that, you are wrong in a very embarassing manner.

 

[visionary]

Predestination......God knows

Free Will.....My choice

God knows my choice.

 

[Bulldog]

I disagree. Predestination is God's choosing, not based on any choice or thing we may do.

Romans 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

that is supposed to be a ; ) (minus the space)

 

[Curt]

You can't switch from the modern vernacular to ancient usage in the same post. Either you don't know what you're doing or you're trying to confuse me.
[Has nothing to do with vernacular. God Wrote His word to us all in our language so that we could understand it just be reading it, and looking to The Holy Spirit for the rest.]

Regardless, predestination in the modern sense means that God arbitrarily decides who is going to Hell and who to Heaven, and that His choice shows up in our actions.
[Predestination is written in The Bible as His foreknowledge of all of our freewill choices.]

Knowledge a priori means that God doesn't take an action in what we do, he only knows what is going to happen.
[That's foolishness to say that God only knows anything. No one can put limits on God. He has written that He knows the thoughts and imaginations of our hearts.]

In the modern sense, you are wrong. Not only that, you are wrong in a very embarassing manner.

I have never been embarrased by proclaiming God's Truth. In fact these reactionary kind of posting are a blessing to me because they are evidence of Truth.

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Pet 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Sam 14:14
14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.
Job 37:24
24 Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.

 

[ty597]

Keep in mind people that this was a question that came up in my youth group that interests me so please dont get mad at me for asking the question. Thank you for your input though.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Predestination......God knows

Free Will.....My choice

God knows my choice.

Wrong.

Predestination - God chose.

Autonomous free will - I chose.

Don't mix.

Free will, in a sense, can exist even if you believe the bible's teachings of predestination. But autonomous free will, that is, a will that is totally unrestricted, cannot.

 

[iam4him]

from what i have been taught recently in a sunday school class that adressed this issue, God knows who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. the choice is made by man but God knows what choice he will make.

 

[Curt]

from what i have been taught recently in a sunday school class that adressed this issue, God knows who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. the choice is made by man but God knows what choice he will make.

This is the exact Truth. Predestination= God's foreknowledge of every choice all of us will ever make.

 

[hologram_bohm]

But if God knows what we're going to choose, then our choice is already predetermined, so how can we possibly choose what we will do if it's already predetermined? And please don't reply with "God can do anything, you just don't understand how it works", that is not an argument.

 

[GenemZ]

You can't switch from the modern vernacular to ancient usage in the same post. Either you don't know what you're doing or you're trying to confuse me.

Regardless, predestination in the modern sense means that God arbitrarily decides who is going to Hell and who to Heaven, and that His choice shows up in our actions.

Knowledge a priori means that God doesn't take an action in what we do, he only knows what is going to happen.

In the modern sense, you are wrong. Not only that, you are wrong in a very embarassing manner.

Only Jesus Christ had been predestined. Once we are born again, we are placed in union with Christ. Like Eve was to Adam, we are to Christ. After all, the Church is called the "bride of Christ." Since Christ is predestined, and we are co-heirs with Christ, we now share in his destiny.

Also... the other side of the predestination coin...

Moses will not be the Bride of Christ at his resurrection. Nor, will Abraham be. Nor, David... Daniel... Ezekiel... Zephaniah, etc. The resurrection of OT saints will be for the New Earth. Those who are Christian, will have their citizenship in Heaven! We were predestined (chosen by God) to be Church, not OT saints. We have been predestined by God to have out home in Heaven. Moses was chosen (predestined) to have his Eternal home on the New Earth. God did not predestinate that you would buy the car you now have. He decreed that it would happen, but he did not predestinate it. What he predestined was your eternal state. What he predestined was that you would be church age, and not an OT saint. He did so by determining exactly when and where you were to be born.

"From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live." Acts 17:26 niv

If God wanted to, He could have had you born during the Exodus. If he had. You would be an OT saint, and not the Bride of Christ. He did not choose you to believe. He chose you to be a part of the Bride of Christ because he knew you would believe. He chooses from all those who he knows will believe. What he chooses, is our destiny in eternity. You have been predestined by God.

Grace and peace, Gene

 

[Lee Fey]

By very definition, the word predestination itself means that what you do was determined before you were ever born. I do believe in free will, I believe that though God will not chose things for you, things outside your own choice are all controlled by God. I believe that none of us that are going to Heaven would be going if God hadn't called us. However, I believe He called us because He knew we would accept, which we did. The Bible tells us that all things are worked together for the good of the God's children. This means that He does have a hand in things, not just an observational standpoint. So, though we have free will, and our choices affect what happens to us, He moves things around it, and He uses the choices we do make in his plan. He depends on us chosing how He knows we will chose, and works with and around our choices. I know this is all very confusing, but it does make sense in my mind. Does anyone else see what I do?