Can Faith Principles Work without a True Understanding of God?

[victoryword]

Would everyone agree that faith confession of God's Word is one of the major teachings in the WoF? If that is the case, can this principle work without having a true understanding of God's character? One of the most familiar passages used in the WoF is Hebrews 11:6:

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.​

Personally, I don't believe that the writer of Hebrews (who, along with the late Kenneth Hagin, I believe is the Apostle Paul) was only referring to God's existence in the bolded part. I believe (from study mind you and not simply speculation) that He was talking about believing that God IS everything He says that He IS.

Now, on a somewhat speculative note, should this not include everything that He ain't? Is He the One responsible for sickness, disease, and other types of evil? If I am unsure that God is behind my problem then is my faith able to work in standing against a circumstance that in the back of my mind I might believe that God has something to do with it?

Your thoughts are appreciated. Also, even if your ideas are not the WoF norm, I still want to hear them, but don't expect me to be sugary sweet in my response to them

 

[Truthfrees]

Would everyone agree that faith confession of God's Word is one of the major teachings in the WoF? If that is the case, can this principle work without having a true understanding of God's character? One of the most familiar passages used in the WoF is Hebrews 11:6:

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.​

Personally, I don't believe that the writer of Hebrews (who, along with the late Kenneth Hagin, I believe is the Apostle Paul) was only referring to God's existence in the bolded part. I believe (from study mind you and not simply speculation) that He was talking about believing that God IS everything He says that He IS.

Now, on a somewhat speculative note, should this not include everything that He ain't? Is He the One responsible for sickness, disease, and other types of evil? If I am unsure that God is behind my problem then is my faith able to work in standing against a circumstance that in the back of my mind I might believe that God has something to do with it?

Your thoughts are appreciated. Also, even if your ideas are not the WoF norm, I still want to hear them, but don't expect me to be sugary sweet in my response to them

What a person believes scripture says is totally colored by what a person believes about the character of God.

If God is the author of only good, resisting the devil makes perfect sense.

If god is the author of evil and good, resisting the devil makes no sense.

Who needs the devil if god is doing the evil for him. This would make god schizophrenic.

I can't trust a schizophrenic god.

(I can't capitalize God, in a sentence where evil is attributed to Him.)

 

[PastorMike]

I am not sure that I am understanding exactly what you are asking but...

I was asked to go and pray for a lady who had terminal cancer (I have seen many cancer patients healed) as I was sharing with her I got a sense from her (or God) that she was blaming God for her sickness and so I asked her... are you blaming God for your sickness?

She replied... Absolutely! I will never forgive God for what he has done to me and my family in giving me this cancer...

I said to her God cannot be your problem and your answer, he is either one or the other, if he is your sickness giver then he is not your healer and vice versa... You need to repent of blaming God for your sickness or you will not be healed...

She said well one thing I am telling you I will never forgive God so are you going to pray or not...

I said I will certainly pray but you must repent of blaming God for your sickness...

The next day I got a phone call from the lady's husband, he told me that she had passed away during the night...

If you are blaming God for your problem how can you be in faith that he is your answer, they are poles apart and contradict each other...

 

[Truthfrees]

Yes. Exactly.

 

[victoryword]

Mike, I concur with TruthFrees. That is exactly what I am getting at. If God is at fault for cancer, how can one believe Him to deal with it.

 

[OldDogDiver]

Mike, I concur with TruthFrees. That is exactly what I am getting at. If God is at fault for cancer, how can one believe Him to deal with it.

And if God gives the sickness &/or it is His will, why would one bother going to the doctor to get healed or take medicine? That would be a sin.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Yes. Exactly.

PastorMike, excellent post. I agree.

And I have to take every opportunity, when Truthfrees and I are on the same page, to stand in full agreement with him!!

 

[victoryword]

PastorMike, excellent post. I agree.

And I have to take every opportunity, when Truthfrees and I are on the same page, to stand in full agreement with him!!

You're no fun. I was expecting you to come in here with guns blazing

 

[Truthfrees]

And if God gives the sickness &/or it is His will, why would one bother going to the doctor to get healed or take medicine? That would be a sin.

Another good point.

 

[Truthfrees]

PastorMike, excellent post. I agree.

And I have to take every opportunity, when Truthfrees and I are on the same page, to stand in full agreement with him!!

LOL.

 

[splat]

Does that mean that one should not trust God if that person fears he has a skewed understanding of God and should put their trust elsewhere?

 

[Truthfrees]

Does that mean that one should not trust God if that person fears he has a skewed understanding of God and should put their trust elsewhere?

There is no where else to go (trust) other than God.

"Simon Peter answered him, “Lord [Master], who would we go to? You have the words that give eternal life." - John 6:68 EXB

So the goal should be to find out who God really is, and keep trusting Him for everything.

I think a person has a really hard time genuinely trusting God when their understanding of who God is, His character, is skewed by wrong interpretation of scripture.

I'm sure they "try" to trust God, but how can they when they think HE is the author of all the evil done to them?

 

[victoryword]

Does that mean that one should not trust God if that person fears he has a skewed understanding of God and should put their trust elsewhere?

It all depends on how a person defines "trust God". Do they mean it in the sense that Calvinists mean it (see Calvinist Jerry Bridges book, "Trusting God" if you are unsure of what I am talking about) or do you define it the way that the Bible does which is to believe the promises of God? The answer to these questions give you the answer to your question.

For me personally it is hard for me to "trust" (as the word normally means) anyone if I believed there is a deficiency in their character.

 

[splat]

I guess the reason I questioned is that I have heard of people, who have not been taught about divine healing (or very little), but have been introduced to the Lord, have been healed. I have even heard of animals being healed by prayer and the power of God. One wonders how much understanding of God's character animals have.

 

[victoryword]

I guess the reason I questioned is that I have heard of people, who have not been taught about divine healing (or very little), but have been introduced to the Lord, have been healed. I have even heard of animals being healed by prayer and the power of God. One wonders how much understanding of God's character animals have.

Sometimes it is the gifts of the Spirit versus healing by faith. Read some of Hagin's books sometime. He discusses these things where God will heal based on mercy alone until a person's faith is developed. However, God expects everyone to mature and come into a knowledge of the truth and develop their faith. Part of the developing of one's faith is knowing the truth about God.

Usually people pray in faith for the animal to get healed so it was the person's faith that moved God to heal the animal. The animal needed no faith.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

There is no where else to go (trust) other than God.

"Simon Peter answered him, “Lord [Master], who would we go to? You have the words that give eternal life." - John 6:68 EXB

So the goal should be to find out who God really is, and keep trusting Him for everything.

I think a person has a really hard time genuinely trusting God when their understanding of who God is, His character, is skewed by wrong interpretation of scripture.

I'm sure they "try" to trust God, but how can they when they think HE is the author of all the evil done to them?

You are going to be fully surprised when I say that I agree with your words 100%.

The difference we have is in interpretation. The word "author" does not mean to create. If I "author" a novel I have not created new words for the description of my story. I have used/wielded the words that existed, possibly in a new manner than anyone previous.

You're right: God does not author evil. He does not wield it. He does not use it.

 

[Truthfrees]

You are going to be fully surprised when I say that I agree with your words 100%.

The difference we have is in interpretation. The word "author" does not mean to create. If I "author" a novel I have not created new words for the description of my story. I have used/wielded the words that existed, possibly in a new manner than anyone previous.

You're right: God does not author evil. He does not wield it. He does not use it.

Yes, I agree with what you've just said 100%.

 

[CGL1023]

Would everyone agree that faith confession of God's Word is one of the major teachings in the WoF? If that is the case, can this principle work without having a true understanding of God's character? One of the most familiar passages used in the WoF is Hebrews 11:6:

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.​

Personally, I don't believe that the writer of Hebrews (who, along with the late Kenneth Hagin, I believe is the Apostle Paul) was only referring to God's existence in the bolded part. I believe (from study mind you and not simply speculation) that He was talking about believing that God IS everything He says that He IS.

Now, on a somewhat speculative note, should this not include everything that He ain't? Is He the One responsible for sickness, disease, and other types of evil? If I am unsure that God is behind my problem then is my faith able to work in standing against a circumstance that in the back of my mind I might believe that God has something to do with it?

Your thoughts are appreciated. Also, even if your ideas are not the WoF norm, I still want to hear them, but don't expect me to be sugary sweet in my response to them

I shall make a non-WoF reply as you invite.

You ask, "Can Faith Principles Work without a True Understanding of God?"

In my opinion, the answer is No.

I understand Word of Faith teachings to be principles to use to receive from God (and that is roughly all I know on the subject WoF though I have had teaching from Kenneth Hagin's tapes/radio in the '80s). I am taught equivalent prinicples from a slightly different perspective. The end result of what I am taught is that when I seek relationship with the Lord, having become a son of God, (led by the Spirit, etc.) and doing things God's way then God gives me what I ask. This is for whosoever will.
It is like Matthew 6:32 as primary, supported by Mk 11:23, 24, Rom 4:17, Jn 14:12-14, Mt 18:19, 1 Jn 5:14-15 plus many more and importantly that (2 Cor 1:20 KJV) "For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us."

Of course, any request made to God must be mixed with faith (Heb 4:2, Heb 11:6).

Note: this is a thumbnail sketch on a microscopic scale and is intended only to show direction. These comments are not to be construed as a complete teaching.

 

[now faith]

Well I will take a philosophical approach.

Positive confession in any circumstances is far better than negative.

Without faith it is impossible to please God,because without faith you do not believe in God.

Without faith it is impossible to please ANYONE.

Hope is the expectation of better thing to come,without faith hope is lost.

I believe WOF teachers focus on prosperity due to people in poverty lose hope.

It is difficult to witness about the love of God to a homeless starving person.

Our works or actions show them God's love,we provide a blessing along with God's word.
But if we are of little faith on just enough for me wages,what are we gonna do?

Nothing at all.

For me bring on the cash,not credit I want more than enough because there are more than enough reasons out there.

 

[Granny2Shoes]

I believe that before this question can be answered, one must determine what faith is. Just above Hebrews 11:6 is Hebrews 11:1 (Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen). I believe your second question was: Is it possible to have faith without understanding God? My personal belief is that yes, it is possible to have faith without understanding God. If I believe (know in my heart) that God is the creator of Heaven and Earth and that He gave His only begotten Son for my sins, then I can have faith in God. However, I still don't understand God, because His ways are not my ways and His thoughts are not my thoughts. How can a finite person really understand an infinite God?

Even in the years that I put my search for material things first in my life, I never lost my faith. I did not follow my beliefs, but I never forgot my beliefs. That is what faith is--belief. Faith is not a declared word, but a gut-wrenching, heart-felt knowing that my God reigns supreme and He is my salvation.

I may study the Bible and man-written words for years, but I will never fully understand God, but I can still have the assurance of my hope in Him even while not seeing it visibly.