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Buying food for a barbecue, buying fireworks, is not shopping?
All holiday shopping is voluntary.It's all voluntary. And the bbq is a frequent event.
Today is July 4th, which is the day the United States declared its independence from Great Britain. In my own journey of life I had gone from a rebellious pagan against my country, to a believer in Christ who was encouraged by other Christians to be a patriot for my country, to a biblical anarchist. When I was a patriot, I grimaced at the thought of Americans celebrating Cinco de Mayo (5th of May) which is the day that Mexico declared its Independence from Spain. Also, how can Mexicans emigrate to the USA to become American citizens and still honor Cinco de Mayo? But the truth is, it has been capitalized by American merchants seeking another excuse to have a sale to lure customers in to shop.
Which brings me to the point of my question. Jesus said that a man can not serve two masters. He will either hate the one and love the other, or hold to one and despise the other (Matt. 6:24). The context of his statement is either serving God or money, but as a principle it could be any two things in opposition.
I am asking this question because of another thread on the forum which declared that Jesus was an anarchist. The author of that thread did not really invite conversation, which is why, I believe, it never took off. But, as I said in the beginning of this thread, I am now a biblical anarchist, by which I do not mean I believe in rebellion to earthly governments.
Instead, I mean I have one master, my Father in heaven, who is my king and I am a subject of his kingdom. How then, could I be a patriot to an earthly government at the same time I am a patriot to my Father's kingdom? So how do you all reconcile these two things? For I do not believe that such expressions as "for God and country" are biblical. Neither do I believe that God blesses any political organization, let alone America. He blesses those that are in Christ, since it is in Christ only that all blessings flow. What do you think?
They are not the same thing; we just use similar language when describing them. To be a "citizen" of a heavenly estate is not actually to have voting rights or anything like that, you know. It's just a reference to one's loyalty, and there's no conflict between serving God and serving one's country.
While I understand what you mean, I still see this as a conflict of interest. How do you reconcile Jesus telling us to not murder, turn the other cheek and not to resist violence with joining the military and invading other countries?
I, too, am a big fan of Frederick Bastiat. His book, The Law, opened my eyes as to the real purpose and source of government. Thank you for your encouragement.I agree and find myself in a very similar situation.
It cannot be reconciled, there is no call to arms for followers of Christ until he makes that call, which I believe will truly be the war to end all wars.
All holiday shopping is voluntary.
So your complaint is the choices people are making?
How's that working for you?
I don't like the messes people leave in the park either.
But that's not the holiday making the mess.
These kinds of debates usually turn on interpretations of a few words here or there. IMHO, what you've said here is entirely defensible, and not extreme, regardless of whether or not a reader agrees with the statement. Were we to change the wording a little bit...no, it might not be; but that's a different matter and has nothing to do with what you've written.I am not complaining about anything. I started this thread with the question, Can a Christian serve two countries? My take is no. We are citizens of the Kingdom of God and are regarded by the Bible as ambassadors of Christ, pilgrims and strangers in a strange land of which we have a temporary sojourn. I had already stated that as guests we are to obey the laws of the land we are in, however, I question our becoming servants of the nation. Jesus said we can not serve two masters.
I am not complaining about anything. I started this thread with the question, Can a Christian serve two countries? My take is no. We are citizens of the Kingdom of God and are regarded by the Bible as ambassadors of Christ, pilgrims and strangers in a strange land of which we have a temporary sojourn. I had already stated that as guests we are to obey the laws of the land we are in, however, I question our becoming servants of the nation. Jesus said we can not serve two masters.
The point of shopping is a secondary observation that the government of the United States (and other nations) are controlled by corporations who use the government to make a profit. When George Bush Jr attacked Iraq without justification or provocation, he told the American people to continue shopping to support the war. Now that the banks have succeeded in creating a national law requiring everyone to have health insurance, insurance companies in their advertisements use this law as a selling point. The United States has become a fascist country (defined as the cooperation of government to facilitate corporations) with the veneer of a republic.
I also believe that some people are called by God to work in government, but they are the few not the majority. I left the Christian right wing political movement because I see it as a distraction to the work of the Kingdom of God, for whom we are all called to serve if you are born again. Our Father's business is sharing the gospel, not fruitlessly spinning our wheels in the political arena which is rigged to serve the American aristocracy.
Thank you. Albion.These kinds of debates usually turn on interpretations of a few words here or there. IMHO, what you've said here is entirely defensible, and not extreme, regardless of whether or not a reader agrees with the statement. Were we to change the wording a little bit...no, it might not be; but that's a different matter and has nothing to do with what you've written.
Not a problem. Only the US follows the call for people to choose representatives
and have those laws created apply to the lawmakers.
That's why we are a Christian nation.
12 "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way
you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
They are not the same thing; we just use similar language when describing them. To be a "citizen" of a heavenly estate is not actually to have voting rights or anything like that, you know. It's just a reference to one's loyalty, and there's no conflict between serving God and serving one's country.
Oh, I don't know. I'm loyal to my soccer team and I'm also loyal to my church. I don't really see the conflict.How can you be loyal to two different kings--especially two kings with differing goals?
God must be put above everything else but this does not mean it is impossible to also serve your country. If your country was being invaded and you chose to defend it then there would be nothing wrong with this because it would still be in accordance with the will of God. If your country wants you to do something that goes against what God has said then it should be rejected.
Oh, I don't know. I'm loyal to my soccer team and I'm also loyal to my church. I don't really see the conflict.
Romans 13:1-7.
I have spoken to a number of Christian parents who are having difficulty reconciling the fact that their kids' soccer games are played on Sunday morning. They are having difficulty with that. And most often, getting their children to service loses out to soccer.
I don't know that this shows the impossibility of being "loyal" to two different entities. Not at all. The problem with this thread (or its main proposition, to be more accurate) is that it suggests that it's impossible to chew gum and walk straight at the same time. It's not.
Yes, there are choices to be made and possible conflicts to be resolved, but the Biblical point is not well understood if it's boiled down to "You cannot do anything other than pray and read your Bible 24 hours a day or else you're nothing but a slave to 'the world.'"
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