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Can Christ be Savior without being Lord ?

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by the particular baptist, Jan 27, 2009.

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  2. mlqurgw

    mlqurgw Well-Known Member

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    Christ is Lord of all. Whether many recognize it or not He is their Lord. We can't make Him Lord because the Father has beat us to it. He set Him, as a man, on the throne and all will bow to Him one way or another. Christ's terms of peace with the rebel sinner is surrender or die. True faith is bowing to Him as both Lord and Savior. Until you bow to Him as Lord you will not bow to Him as Savior. He is not the Savior and Lord but the Lord and Savior. The reason He is the Savior is because He is the Lord. It isn't possible to trust Him as the Savior without bowing to Him as the Lord. He always come as conqueror before He comes as Comforter.
     
  3. the particular baptist

    the particular baptist pactum serva

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    Very well said as always sir. I remember 4 yrs ago or so before my conversion someone had given me John MacArthurs book "The Gospel According To Jesus". I read through a third of it and it infuriated me but it was right on.
     
  4. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    In answer to the OP question it makes no sense to say "I believe in Jesus Christ" and then say that he isn't Lord. Just the title "Christ" itself implies that he is King. Saying "He is Christ" and then saying, "he isn't Lord" is just nonsense. It's like saying "He is King, but oh, He isn't King".
     
  5. desmalia

    desmalia sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays

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    Very true. But many in the church pay lip service to Christ as "Lord and Savior", but never truly submit to His Lordship. So they're happy to take the salvation part, but not really the Lordship part. But that is not genuine Christianity. And unless they do one day submit to His Lordship, they will be the ones who cry "Lord, Lord", and He will tell them He never knew them.
     
  6. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    I know too many people who love to call Jesus Savior, but don't call him Lord. When asked what they believe about God, the response is invariably "I'm Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, etc." What sorrow it brings me to know that these people believe that they're saved just because they grew up in a Christian home and had water splashed on them when they were babies. People who are truly redeemed and know it will live for Christ and bear fruit.
     
  7. mlqurgw

    mlqurgw Well-Known Member

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    The thing that thrills me when I consider the Lordship of Christ:
    He is sitting on the throne of the universe ruling in absolute authority.
    He that sits on the throne in absolute authority is my Elder Brother who loved me and gave Himself for me.
    He that sits on the throne of absolute authority performs all things for me. Psa. 57:2, 2Cor. 4: 15, Rom. 8:28
     
  8. Kilrathi827

    Kilrathi827 World Traveler, English Teacher

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    To say that Jesus is Savior and not Lord is a simple impossibility. He is either Savior and Lord, or neither. To take the titles apart is a seperation without distinction. Because Jesus submitted to the will of the Father, and humbled Himself to become the sacrifice for all of humanity, He was exalted above all others. It doesn't matter if some refuse to recognize that now, eventually every knee will bow to His Lordship.
     
  9. BereanXII

    BereanXII Newbie

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    If he is Savior he will be Lord. Lordship is not a requirement for salvation but will be a by-product.
     
  10. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    How is Lordship not required? How can you say Jesus is "Messiah" without saying He is Lord? It doesn't even make any sense. As Messiah("anointed one"), He is Lord. It's a title that the king has. Paul seems to think you must confess with your mouth that "Jesus is Lord". Jude 1:4 warns it's readers against people who deny the "Master and Lord". If Jesus is really Messiah, then He is Lord. It makes no sense to say Jesus is "Christ" and then turn around and say "oh, but he's not Lord". That's like saying He is "Christ", but oh, he isn't Christ.

    The same sort of idea holds true with the resurrection. Jesus must be bodily raised or he isn't messiah. A dead messiah is not a messiah just like a messiah who isn't lord isn't really a messiah either.
     
  11. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. But how can someone be saved without obeying Christ? Faith without works is no faith at all.
     
  12. Kilrathi827

    Kilrathi827 World Traveler, English Teacher

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    Salvation does not require any works of the law to be done, because of the simple fact that nothing we do by ourselves can be good. Our salvation is later seen by others by the works that we do, but the works do not produce the salvation of our souls. Christ alone can do that, and that happens when we acknowledge him as our Lord, Master, and Savior. A faith that works is one of the signs of Spiritual growth as a Christian matures in his faith. If we were to say that a specific work must be done for salvation, it takes the emphasis off of Christ's sacrifice and places it on the action.
     
  13. Benefactor

    Benefactor Guest

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    Enjoyed the U-Tube presentatino


    • When a person is saved Jesus is Lord of that person
    • When a person who is saved sins fellowship is broken but Jesus does not cease being Lord of that person's life
    • There are two truths: Jesus is always Lord and will do what is best for each believer regardless of the behavior. When a believer sins and remains in that sin from the practical side of living for Christ the sinning believer refuses to live under His lordship, but does not mean Jesus is not Lord of his life.
    • Christians who persist in rebellions are dealt with - Jesus takes them to the wood shed so to speak because He is Lord.
    • As a parent you never cease being the parents of your children. Their behavior does not in anyway declare, make or annul your parent hood. They in rebellions are acting outside your guide lines but because you are in control and Jesus is in control, then you are still Parents and He is still our Lord too.
    • Jesus will never stop being Lord of the real believer’s life, even in times of sin. It can not happen.
    • The concept of Jesus not being Lord of the Christian's life is mistaken and miss applied to substitute the practical application of our relationship with our Lord. If Jesus is not Lord all the time of a believer's life then He is lost. It is that simple. A lost person regardless of how godly he or she acts is not under the Lordship of Christ, whereas the believer is in spite of the believer behavior.
    • If you could make Jesus not be your Lord after you are saved, then your are saying you determine who rules your life and in essence stating you have the power to manipulate God. You don't have that option. Try living in sin for an extended period of time and see if Jesus is Lord. Because He is Lord and you are saved you will be most miserable in your selfishness, sin and He will discipline you because He is your Lord.
      [*]Lordship salvation is a destructive misleading doctrine when it is incorrectly explained. Those that imply that Lordship salvation is equal to a believer living a perfect life is miss leading. Examples in God's word do not agree with any concept of sinless perfection in the believer’s life. No believer on the face of the earth is without sin, but sin must not dominate the heart. Confession of sin, if not a daily practice in the heart of all true believers, is rebellions but not rebellion unto loss of salvation. Two things are possible: Either a believer in rebellion or a lost person professing salvation. Good people teach this none sense of sinless perfection but we all have our areas on none sense don't we. If you take the Lordship concept to it conclusion it becomes a doctrine no different from those that believe they can move in and out of God’s saving grace. You may try to run your life but now that you are his chosen person you won’t get away with it, He is your “Master”. A “REAL” believer even in rebellion knows who the Lord of his life is. You have most likely been there and so have I.
      [*]One last example: The king has a servant who he has total control over. The servant disobeys and does something utterly stupid and very bad. The King punishes the servant. The servant does not stop being a servant even when he is punished. The king has the right to do a lot of things even take the servants life. There are examples in the New T. where believers are taken out yet Jesus is still Lord and He demonstrates it in his discipline of us. I would not advise challenging the Lordship of Christ, not a good thing, unless you are glutton for punishment.
    Lordship salvation is not sinless perfection and when this is suggests or when this form of Lordship is implied or taught it violates the practical teaching of God's word.

    Lordship salvation is 100 percent in my opinion sound doctrine as long as it does not imply or teach sinles perfection. To God Be The Glory


    The bottom line is as express by so many. When a person comes to Christ it is not for salvation minus Lordship. The soul that received Christ is as many have already stated in the state of total surrender, I surrender all, all to Jesus I surrender.

    Great topic would to God we would hear more of this from the pulpits across our nation each Sunday.
    I enjoyed the track.

    My answer short and to the point concerning the original question is NO.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2009
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