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Can ChatGPT interpret speaking in tongues?

The Liturgist

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Very true. Look at Pentecostals also,...


This issue, while not technically topical, does deserve a reply, particularly since we appear to have exhausted the primary subject.

Thus, I feel I should begin by pointing out a fact that many Pentecostal and Charismatic members might find interesting, the rapid growth of the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches was prophesied by Fr. Seraphim Rose in his work Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. Fr. Seraphim, who alas did not take a positive view of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement for a variety of reasons (mostly shared by other Orthodox Christians as well as by the more broad category of traditional liturgical Christians), was converted to Holy Orthodoxy by St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, a wonderworking bishop with many charisma of the sorts I expect Pentecostals and Charismatics appreciate, and also some which I’m not sure if you have experience with or not, for example, bilocation.

Now, that being said, the growth rates of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox are rising to meet and in many cases exceed that of the various Penetecostal denominations, for all our churches are growing with the exception of the Greek Orthodox (who due to gross mismanagement from the Ecumenical Patriarchate are shrinking in most jurisdictions except those of Jerusalem and Alexandria and All Africa, where our missions are bearing fruit) are now outpacing the Pentecostals due to the miraculous conversion rates since the end of the Pandemic, with 18% annual growth rates not being uncommon. This is both from conversion (alienated conservative members of mainline denominations such as the UMC, ECUSA and C of E, and of non-Christians including Atheists and other adherents of various forms of nihilist irreligious superstition, Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons, adherents of African religions, unchurched people), and from the very high reproductive rate of the Orthodox, who prohibit all abortion and contraception and strongly discourage divorce, and promote celibacy as the only alternative to marriage, in the context of various forms of religious vocation.

In the case of Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, we can attribute their growth to a number of factors including disillusionment of conservative Latin Americans with the increasingly liberal Roman Catholic hierarchy*, a strategic decision which paid off to focus on missions in Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines and other Asian countries outside the communist yoke which experienced explosive economic and population growth, but this growth has now stalled**, and most denominations have not had much success evangelizing the Japanese***, and the aggressive proselytization of people in the US, Australia, the UK and other countries who have been alienated by the liberalism of the mainline Protestant denominations and the scandals and increased liberalism in most of the Roman Catholic Church (where most of the growing congregations are those associated with the Traditional Latin Mass or other forms of conservative worship, which have suffered from reprisals against the TLM communities enacted by the late Pope Francis, and by various theologically liberal bishops; conversely, the more conservative dioceses tend to be doing better in terms of membership and attendance).

One other major factor of growth in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement has been the recent growth of various non-denominational churches, megachurches, seeker-sensitive churches and related churches that are primarily evangelical in character yet which have a charismatic component, a growth which is now slowing dramatically. These churches, which include both non-denominational churches as well as new denominations such as the Calvary Chapel, Harvest Fellowship, the Vineyard churches and so on, tend to be most closely related to Baptists in character, with no real trace of the Methodist, Wesleyan or Holiness Movement connections we see in mainstream Pentecostal denominations. These churches I would argue are not primarily charismatic but rather engage in charismatic worship to the extent that it contributes to their popularity, but their main defining feature tends to be the use of highly informal worship centered around expositionary preaching, usually determined either on the basis of lectio selecta (arbitrary lessons taught by the pastor) or lectio continua (reading the “entire Bible” sans those books which are unpopular among most Protestants aside from the Anglicans and some Lutherans), interspersed with “Christian rock” and “praise and worship” music, which members frequently dance to. These churches naturally are in a position to facilitate certain types of Pentecostal practices (for example “shaking in the spirit”).

:hibiscus:

I am not surprised that the main engagement for converts is now among those denominations which admit the possibility of divine gifts and the miraculous, such as the Orthodox, the traditional Roman Catholics, charismatic Catholics and Protestants, and the Pentecostals and other non-Cessationist denominations. The rejection of a belief in the miraculous which underscores Cessationism does not reflect accurately the reality of the past 1,967 years of Christian history, which have been permeated with continual histories from Apostolic times until the present of wonderworking Christians who through the grace of the Holy Spirit have been allowed to heal diseases, prophesy, communicate in languages not previously known to them, survive otherwise lethal attacks upon their person, appear in multiple places simultaneously, and appear even after having reposed in our Lord in order to provide for the pastoral well being and spiritual nourishment of the faithful. The main question therefore is whether or not the Orthodox and traditional Catholic understanding of these gifts as something that occurs primarily within the context of asceticism or monasticism or within pastoral offices within the Church, as the fruits of a life of prayer and devotion, whereby those among us who would lead are better able to serve, and thus the first may make themselves the last, by having additional means of taking care of the laity whose vocation is within the care of their family and other considerations of an important nature other than a life dedicated entirely to prayer or the spread of the Gospel (basically, the different forms of martyrdom as recognized in Celtic Christianity: the red martyrdom of the blood shed by martyrs and confessors and that is risked by those who confess Christ before men, the white martyrdom of the purity of holy matrimony and the green martyrdom, symbolic of the new life in Christ, of those monastics who dedicate themselves to prayer, or whether other interpretations such as those proposed by the various Charismatic movements.
* Latin America has also turned into a fertile ground for new converts to Holy Orthodoxy, both Eastern and Oriental, for example, there exists in Guatemala a large Syriac Orthodox community among the Mayans, and in Brazil a large Orthodox community under the omophorion of the Orthodox Church of Poland (which was related to the Portuguese Orthodox Church, which was formed under Polish supervision, but has since become schismatic, whereas fortunately the Orthodox in Brazil have not engaged in schism).

** Fortunately, the Orthodox also invested in these areas, albeit not to the same extent, and there also existed jurisdictional confusion resulting, like most jurisdictional confusion in Holy Orthodoxy, from the complex state of affairs resulting from the rise of what Ronald Reagan aptly called “the empire of evil”, that being the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which caused schisms in the Russian and Armenian churches and through its proxies also caused the persecution of the Ethiopians among the Oriental Orthodox and the Bulgarian, Romanian, Polish and Serbian churches, and in the case of the fanatical regime of Enver Hoxha in Albania, the death of nearly all Albanian Orthodox clergy who remained in the country along with their Roman Catholic and Protestant brethren, as well as nearly all leaders of the Sunni and Bektasi Sufi sects and of other religions present in Albania, for Hoxha attempted to suppress all religion; this failed, as witnessed by the glorious rebirth of the Albanian Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant churches after his death, portions of which had been kept alive by expatriates in Italy, the United States and elsewhere. At any rate, this confusion has now largely passed and we are experiencing a good rate of growth in Korea, the Republic of China, Hong Kong and other Asian countries not underneath the communist yoke.

*** In Japan the Japanese Orthodox Church, established in the 19th century by Russian and Ukrainian missionaries, has lately been experiencing fairly consistent growth, with a Romanian-supported parish recently receiving permission to build a new cemetery (something highly unusual in Japan, a country which unfortunately cremates most of its deceased, an approach which is obviously grossly unacceptable to the Orthodox, who believe that except where mandated by the government, the deceased should be buried, since cremation, while by no means threatening God’s ability to resurrect the deceased, for God is omnipotent and can resurrect anyone regardless of the condition, or lack thereof, of their relics, represents unacceptable violence to the image of God that is born by every human being.
 
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The Liturgist

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Its not God that needs is, its us, it bypasses the limitations of human vocabulary.

If that were a concern surely the Gospels in general, and the Lord’s Prayer in particular, would not have been composed in Koine Greek, nor would they contain quotes of our Lord speaking in Judean or Gallilean neo-Aramaic.
 
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ARBITER01

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Its not God that needs is, its us, it bypasses the limitations of human vocabulary.

Correct.

Faith leaps beyond logic. Some things from GOD are not understandable by our minds.
 
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ARBITER01

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I have noticed people on this forum dont argue with you. Whats your secret?

Oh they like to argue with me a lot, to the point that I have a healthy ignore list.

I just try to interject what truth I have knowledge of into subjects and try to stay out of ones that are not really relevant. In other words I try to stay in my lane.
 
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ARBITER01

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This issue, while not technically topical, does deserve a reply, particularly since we appear to have exhausted the primary subject.

Thus, I feel I should begin by pointing out a fact that many Pentecostal and Charismatic members might find interesting, the rapid growth of the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches was prophesied by Fr. Seraphim Rose in his work Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. Fr. Seraphim, who alas did not take a positive view of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement for a variety of reasons (mostly shared by other Orthodox Christians as well as by the more broad category of traditional liturgical Christians), was converted to Holy Orthodoxy by St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, a wonderworking bishop with many charisma of the sorts I expect Pentecostals and Charismatics appreciate, and also some which I’m not sure if you have experience with or not, for example, bilocation.

Now, that being said, the growth rates of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox are rising to meet and in many cases exceed that of the various Penetecostal denominations, for all our churches are growing with the exception of the Greek Orthodox (who due to gross mismanagement from the Ecumenical Patriarchate are shrinking in most jurisdictions except those of Jerusalem and Alexandria and All Africa, where our missions are bearing fruit) are now outpacing the Pentecostals due to the miraculous conversion rates since the end of the Pandemic, with 18% annual growth rates not being uncommon. This is both from conversion (alienated conservative members of mainline denominations such as the UMC, ECUSA and C of E, and of non-Christians including Atheists and other adherents of various forms of nihilist irreligious superstition, Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons, adherents of African religions, unchurched people), and from the very high reproductive rate of the Orthodox, who prohibit all abortion and contraception and strongly discourage divorce, and promote celibacy as the only alternative to marriage, in the context of various forms of religious vocation.

In the case of Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, we can attribute their growth to a number of factors including disillusionment of conservative Latin Americans with the increasingly liberal Roman Catholic hierarchy*, a strategic decision which paid off to focus on missions in Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines and other Asian countries outside the communist yoke which experienced explosive economic and population growth, but this growth has now stalled**, and most denominations have not had much success evangelizing the Japanese***, and the aggressive proselytization of people in the US, Australia, the UK and other countries who have been alienated by the liberalism of the mainline Protestant denominations and the scandals and increased liberalism in most of the Roman Catholic Church (where most of the growing congregations are those associated with the Traditional Latin Mass or other forms of conservative worship, which have suffered from reprisals against the TLM communities enacted by the late Pope Francis, and by various theologically liberal bishops; conversely, the more conservative dioceses tend to be doing better in terms of membership and attendance).

One other major factor of growth in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement has been the recent growth of various non-denominational churches, megachurches, seeker-sensitive churches and related churches that are primarily evangelical in character yet which have a charismatic component, a growth which is now slowing dramatically. These churches, which include both non-denominational churches as well as new denominations such as the Calvary Chapel, Harvest Fellowship, the Vineyard churches and so on, tend to be most closely related to Baptists in character, with no real trace of the Methodist, Wesleyan or Holiness Movement connections we see in mainstream Pentecostal denominations. These churches I would argue are not primarily charismatic but rather engage in charismatic worship to the extent that it contributes to their popularity, but their main defining feature tends to be the use of highly informal worship centered around expositionary preaching, usually determined either on the basis of lectio selecta (arbitrary lessons taught by the pastor) or lectio continua (reading the “entire Bible” sans those books which are unpopular among most Protestants aside from the Anglicans and some Lutherans), interspersed with “Christian rock” and “praise and worship” music, which members frequently dance to. These churches naturally are in a position to facilitate certain types of Pentecostal practices (for example “shaking in the spirit”).

:hibiscus:

I am not surprised that the main engagement for converts is now among those denominations which admit the possibility of divine gifts and the miraculous, such as the Orthodox, the traditional Roman Catholics, charismatic Catholics and Protestants, and the Pentecostals and other non-Cessationist denominations. The rejection of a belief in the miraculous which underscores Cessationism does not reflect accurately the reality of the past 1,967 years of Christian history, which have been permeated with continual histories from Apostolic times until the present of wonderworking Christians who through the grace of the Holy Spirit have been allowed to heal diseases, prophesy, communicate in languages not previously known to them, survive otherwise lethal attacks upon their person, appear in multiple places simultaneously, and appear even after having reposed in our Lord in order to provide for the pastoral well being and spiritual nourishment of the faithful. The main question therefore is whether or not the Orthodox and traditional Catholic understanding of these gifts as something that occurs primarily within the context of asceticism or monasticism or within pastoral offices within the Church, as the fruits of a life of prayer and devotion, whereby those among us who would lead are better able to serve, and thus the first may make themselves the last, by having additional means of taking care of the laity whose vocation is within the care of their family and other considerations of an important nature other than a life dedicated entirely to prayer or the spread of the Gospel (basically, the different forms of martyrdom as recognized in Celtic Christianity: the red martyrdom of the blood shed by martyrs and confessors and that is risked by those who confess Christ before men, the white martyrdom of the purity of holy matrimony and the green martyrdom, symbolic of the new life in Christ, of those monastics who dedicate themselves to prayer, or whether other interpretations such as those proposed by the various Charismatic movements.
* Latin America has also turned into a fertile ground for new converts to Holy Orthodoxy, both Eastern and Oriental, for example, there exists in Guatemala a large Syriac Orthodox community among the Mayans, and in Brazil a large Orthodox community under the omophorion of the Orthodox Church of Poland (which was related to the Portuguese Orthodox Church, which was formed under Polish supervision, but has since become schismatic, whereas fortunately the Orthodox in Brazil have not engaged in schism).

** Fortunately, the Orthodox also invested in these areas, albeit not to the same extent, and there also existed jurisdictional confusion resulting, like most jurisdictional confusion in Holy Orthodoxy, from the complex state of affairs resulting from the rise of what Ronald Reagan aptly called “the empire of evil”, that being the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which caused schisms in the Russian and Armenian churches and through its proxies also caused the persecution of the Ethiopians among the Oriental Orthodox and the Bulgarian, Romanian, Polish and Serbian churches, and in the case of the fanatical regime of Enver Hoxha in Albania, the death of nearly all Albanian Orthodox clergy who remained in the country along with their Roman Catholic and Protestant brethren, as well as nearly all leaders of the Sunni and Bektasi Sufi sects and of other religions present in Albania, for Hoxha attempted to suppress all religion; this failed, as witnessed by the glorious rebirth of the Albanian Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant churches after his death, portions of which had been kept alive by expatriates in Italy, the United States and elsewhere. At any rate, this confusion has now largely passed and we are experiencing a good rate of growth in Korea, the Republic of China, Hong Kong and other Asian countries not underneath the communist yoke.

*** In Japan the Japanese Orthodox Church, established in the 19th century by Russian and Ukrainian missionaries, has lately been experiencing fairly consistent growth, with a Romanian-supported parish recently receiving permission to build a new cemetery (something highly unusual in Japan, a country which unfortunately cremates most of its deceased, an approach which is obviously grossly unacceptable to the Orthodox, who believe that except where mandated by the government, the deceased should be buried, since cremation, while by no means threatening God’s ability to resurrect the deceased, for God is omnipotent and can resurrect anyone regardless of the condition, or lack thereof, of their relics, represents unacceptable violence to the image of God that is born by every human being.

tldr

You really should learn how to condense things better. I can't sit here and eat my SpaghettiOs and answer all the different subjects and rabbit trails you fill up in your replies.
 
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The Liturgist

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tldr

You really should learn how to condense things better. I can't sit here and eat my SpaghettiOs and answer all the different subjects and rabbit trails you fill up in your replies.

Well I suppose my main points were that (1) the continued growth of your denomination was prophesied in the 1970s by an Orthodox abbot, Fr. Seraphim Rose, in Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future, (2) that lately the Orthodox Church has also been experiencing explosive growth, and (3) that it seems to me reasonable that in our materialistic, nihilistic era people will favor those denominations which believe in the miraculous based on the 1,967 year history of the Church being filled with those gifted with supernatural ability by the Holy Spirit, as opposed to cessationist denominations.
 
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ARBITER01

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(3) that it seems to me reasonable that in our materialistic, nihilistic era people will favor those denominations which believe in the miraculous based on the 1,967 year history of the Church being filled with those gifted with supernatural ability by the Holy Spirit, as opposed to cessationist denominations.

They've tried their hardest over the years to stomp out Pentecostals and the like, and it has not worked.
 
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JulieB67

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Its not God that needs is, its us, it bypasses the limitations of human vocabulary.
Again, no offense to anyone but I'm just not seeing that in these verses.

I Corinthians 14:14 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."

I Corinthians 14:15 "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

What you see as an endorsement I see the exact opposite. I see Paul stating that when he prays and sings in the spirit he will do so with understanding. We have to be in tune. Or as he states it's unfruitful. Which is the point of this entire chapter more or less.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this....
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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As a matter of interest ChatGTP can write in Pentecostal style tongues. I asked Copilot to provide a paragraph in such tonhues, this is what it gave:
I asked "type a paragraph in simulated Pentecostal tongues, please" and Copilot gave:
Certainly. Here is a paragraph that simulates glossolalia in the style often associated with Pentecostal worship—crafted to evoke the rhythm, phonetic texture, and spiritual fervour of such utterances, while remaining respectful and imaginative:
Shandala makoré vashanta ralamandé! Ikaraba sotoriam, elandriya vashekoto! Halama shundaraya, tikoré balandé, hoshania! Rikaraba sundalé, emandriya toshakaya, halelé! Vashundra kalamandé, shakaraya! Hoshania, hoshania, tikoré balandé!
This is not a translation of any known language, nor does it carry semantic meaning in the conventional sense. Rather, it mimics the cadence and emotive flow of glossolalia—often experienced as a spontaneous, Spirit-led expression beyond linguistic structure. If you wish, I can also explore theological interpretations of glossolalia across traditions, or generate a fictional liturgical context in which such utterances might appear.
It is interesting, I hope it doesn't offend anybody. It is just what Copilot gave in response to my request.
 
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FenderTL5

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As a matter of interest ChatGTP can write in Pentecostal style tongues. I asked Copilot to provide a paragraph in such tonhues, this is what it gave:
I asked "type a paragraph in simulated Pentecostal tongues, please" and Copilot gave:
Certainly. Here is a paragraph that simulates glossolalia in the style often associated with Pentecostal worship—crafted to evoke the rhythm, phonetic texture, and spiritual fervour of such utterances, while remaining respectful and imaginative:
Shandala makoré vashanta ralamandé! Ikaraba sotoriam, elandriya vashekoto! Halama shundaraya, tikoré balandé, hoshania! Rikaraba sundalé, emandriya toshakaya, halelé! Vashundra kalamandé, shakaraya! Hoshania, hoshania, tikoré balandé!
This is not a translation of any known language, nor does it carry semantic meaning in the conventional sense. Rather, it mimics the cadence and emotive flow of glossolalia—often experienced as a spontaneous, Spirit-led expression beyond linguistic structure. If you wish, I can also explore theological interpretations of glossolalia across traditions, or generate a fictional liturgical context in which such utterances might appear.
It is interesting, I hope it doesn't offend anybody. It is just what Copilot gave in response to my request.
It kinda' reminds me of a lyric from a charismatic singer/entertainer who once called it, "untie my bowtie, who stole my honda stuff"
 
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RDKirk

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It kinda' reminds me of a lyric from a charismatic singer/entertainer who once called it, "untie my bowtie, who stole my honda stuff"
I know that reference.

I have a healing miracle testimony connected to that guy.
 
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Rose_bud

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If that were a concern surely the Gospels in general, and the Lord’s Prayer in particular, would not have been composed in Koine Greek, nor would they contain quotes of our Lord speaking in Judean or Gallilean neo-Aramaic.
I don't think anyone is saying that natural languages are not required. The point is that their is a gift of tongues that transcends the natural understanding of how we communicate with God.

I was listening to a song earlier by a Nigerian singer, never heard of him before..
But the lyrics captured my attention.

Who is like you Oh God, Who is like you.
The weight of who You are... no words can carry. Who is like you Oh God. Who is like you.

It's nothing like the liturgical style worship you may be accustomed too. But I believe God makes room for every expression of worship that exalts His name.
 
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Rose_bud

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Again, no offense to anyone but I'm just not seeing that in these verses.

I Corinthians 14:14 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."

I Corinthians 14:15 "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

What you see as an endorsement I see the exact opposite. I see Paul stating that when he prays and sings in the spirit he will do so with understanding. We have to be in tune. Or as he states it's unfruitful. Which is the point of this entire chapter more or less.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this....

I Corinthians 14:15 "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."
 
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ARBITER01

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As a matter of interest ChatGTP can write in Pentecostal style tongues. I asked Copilot to provide a paragraph in such tonhues, this is what it gave:
I asked "type a paragraph in simulated Pentecostal tongues, please" and Copilot gave:
Certainly. Here is a paragraph that simulates glossolalia in the style often associated with Pentecostal worship—crafted to evoke the rhythm, phonetic texture, and spiritual fervour of such utterances, while remaining respectful and imaginative:
Shandala makoré vashanta ralamandé! Ikaraba sotoriam, elandriya vashekoto! Halama shundaraya, tikoré balandé, hoshania! Rikaraba sundalé, emandriya toshakaya, halelé! Vashundra kalamandé, shakaraya! Hoshania, hoshania, tikoré balandé!
This is not a translation of any known language, nor does it carry semantic meaning in the conventional sense. Rather, it mimics the cadence and emotive flow of glossolalia—often experienced as a spontaneous, Spirit-led expression beyond linguistic structure. If you wish, I can also explore theological interpretations of glossolalia across traditions, or generate a fictional liturgical context in which such utterances might appear.
It is interesting, I hope it doesn't offend anybody. It is just what Copilot gave in response to my request.

I don't find it offending, just funny on the one hand and stupid on the other.

Spiritual things are not understood by material means. Spiritual things go beyond the limitations of the mind hence, why they can't be understood apart from a person being filled with The Holy Spirit and receiving them in the process.

People can talk about it all they want, but they will never really know about them without pursuing them from GOD and receiving them.
 
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