Can Anyone Relate?

[RachelZ]

Just wondering if anyone can relate to this or not. I know that the OCD tends to latch onto important stuff but some of the stuff I get hugely anxious about isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. I know I was also diagnosed with anankastic personality traits, (or OCPD traits), so don't know if it's more to do with the perfectionistic side of me. It's not perfectionism in a mild I like everything to be perfect way but in an I can get moderately to hideously anxious about things if I feel they may not be quite right. For example when placing ornaments I tend not to able to settle till I feel they're just in the right place. This week, having had a horrible start to it with some verses I read which freaked me out I then got horribly anxious on Tuesday; we're having a lot of work done outside out property and a wall was being built at the front. I started to feel it was too high and didn't know what to do...I can't tell you how awful I felt and just had to go for a drive until my hubby finished work and then we went home and dealt with it. Upshot was, the wall's been lowered and looks much better. The thing is there's times when I feel something isn't quite right and I know others are like "it's no big deal" but in this instance others agreed with me. This makes it difficult for me to determine what is a justified issue. The trouble is, big or small I'll get the anxiety in varying degrees, so I can't say well if I get anxious then that shows there's no real problem. Anyway having felt better from the verses freak out and the wall issue, this morning the relationship OCD reared it's ugly head. And shortly after I was looking at some new saucepans we bought yetserday and I've been feeling almost sick with anxiety about whether or not they're exactly right. With all these things I find it so hard to determine what's a genuine concern and then I get scared cos I think well if I was right about the wall then what if I'm right regarding the relationship OCD issues? Does that make sense? I know I do have a terrible need for certain things to be perfect and find little things that aren't quite right can cause me a lot of anxiety.

I'm just wondering firstly if anyone can relate to this? I feel so silly cos I'm feeling horrible about some stupid saucepans! I mean at the start of the week it was fearing God had potentially given up on me or at least was very unhappy with me...then it's a brick wall...then what if I'm married to the wrong guy and now some stupid pans!! Secondly, fear rises up when I discover that something I was concerned about is an issue for others as well, (ie the wall being too high); this makes me think well if I was right about the wall then maybe I've been right all along about the ROCD or the religous OCD or other issues I've been anxious about. I know that anxiety surrounding an issue is supposed to point to it being OCD but if in some instances I'm right even if the anxiety is over the top, how can I determine what issues to let alone and say "that's OCD type thinking"?

Hope everyone's doing OK...thanks for being so supportive this week...I just feel like I'm going from one anxiety issue to another...it's so draining! Take care, Rachel

 

[ObsessedButBlessed]

Well Rachel, let me ask you this. Do you think non-OCD people get anxious over having the wrong sauce pans? lol! No, they probably don't. Someone explained to me once how the non-OCD mind works: you lay out all your possible decisions, weigh the facts, and make a decision. You don't sit there and torture yourself for years over something like we OCD'ers tend to do. Having OCPD myself I completely understand why you feel anxious. I'm very rigid in my thinking, always following the rules and get anxious when other people/life doesn't follow the same rigidity that I do.

For example we just painted some walls in our bedroom. My husband did the work and I feel it's unfinished (two walls aren't painted...I don't even understand his reasoning about this!). It did make me anxious and it didn't feel equal/symmetric. But he insisted it be kept that way. Do I like it...ehh, kind of. I can live with it and live with the anxiety of feeling uneven. It goes away sooner or later for me. Why not try living with the "not quite right" pans for a few weeks? Live with uncertainty that they're not the right pans for a bit. While anxiety can be a good thing - warning us of some danger - anxiety over sauce pans is not quite what the brain is intended to be doing.

I hope you're feeling better!

 

[kaykay9.0]

Yes, I relate to what you are saying, Rachel. I think we just have to realize though, that struggling with OCD doesn't make us wrong about EVERYTHING! We may have a legitimate concern about something. However, we have to also know that if we tend to obsess in a certain area, we have to realize that in that area our judgment may be skewed. ( I often define religious OCD as taking a "truth" and stretching it to the point, it becomes "error.")

Also, regarding relationship OCD you mentioned, I have often thought that's one of the stabilizing things about Christian marriage. Once that commitment is made, we don't need to sit around wondering whether we made the right choice. It's done, and we move on from there! Does that make any sense?

I do think if we are prone to OCD, we may tend to obsess about a lot of needless things. I tend to do this in decorating too although it doesn't make me "anxious" like the religious obsessing does. I think Sad nailed it when she reminded us that often with OCD, we have to make the decision that we will make the best decisions possible but after that at some point, we have to just decide to accept the RISK and move on.

 

[RachelZ]

Thanks Sad and KayKay. I think I'd have felt similarly about the unpainted walls...you've done well to let it lie! Yes I agree that it isn't normal to get anxious about a set of saucepans! You should have seen some of my attempts to choose toothpaste! LOL But then it isn't normal to get anxious about a brick wall but the truth was it was too high and changing it was a good thing to do. My dilemma comes from thinking that if I get anxious about things that do need attending to then how will I know which things are genuine concerns. The ROCD is the one that this usually affects with me thinking well maybe my concerns were right and valid and that just throws up hideous feelings and thoughts. I'm trying not to go there but it's so hard. I know the idea is to say "so what it doesn't matter" but it does matter...it matters very, very much if I'm living a lie. I agree KayKay that with marriage once the decision's made there's no more to be done anyway and I certainly wouldn't contemplate divorce. I don't WANT to divorce him...the trouble I have is the intense need to know whether or not marrying him was right or wrong. How will I ever know when my anxiety grounds in things big, small, important or unimportant? I feel bad even writing this as if I've somehow been disloyal to him. I can feel the ROCD issue rising up within me and I don't know how to stop it and to not go slipping down into that hideous place I've been so many times. This is bad enough how I'm feeling at the moment but if it really takes hold I know it'll get even worse. I know I put my hubby under a microscope and nothing looks good when it's that magnified and distorted...I know when I feel OK I don't have all these thoughts and feelings...but I just don't know how to determine once and for all to say this is OCD...this isn't just you over-reacting this is OCD distorting. Writing that I started to feel like I wasn't being true to myself...I'm starting to panic even just writing this thinking what if it's all true and I've made a mistake?

How can you get free from all this anxiety? If it's not one issue it's another...I don't want to live my life wasting time fretting.

Sorry...just feeling a bit stressed out as you can prolly tell...hope you're all doing OK...take care, Rachel

 

[picassoui]

Thanks Sad and KayKay. I think I'd have felt similarly about the unpainted walls...you've done well to let it lie! Yes I agree that it isn't normal to get anxious about a set of saucepans! You should have seen some of my attempts to choose toothpaste! LOL But then it isn't normal to get anxious about a brick wall but the truth was it was too high and changing it was a good thing to do. My dilemma comes from thinking that if I get anxious about things that do need attending to then how will I know which things are genuine concerns. The ROCD is the one that this usually affects with me thinking well maybe my concerns were right and valid and that just throws up hideous feelings and thoughts. I'm trying not to go there but it's so hard. I know the idea is to say "so what it doesn't matter" but it does matter...it matters very, very much if I'm living a lie. I agree KayKay that with marriage once the decision's made there's no more to be done anyway and I certainly wouldn't contemplate divorce. I don't WANT to divorce him...the trouble I have is the intense need to know whether or not marrying him was right or wrong. How will I ever know when my anxiety grounds in things big, small, important or unimportant? I feel bad even writing this as if I've somehow been disloyal to him. I can feel the ROCD issue rising up within me and I don't know how to stop it and to not go slipping down into that hideous place I've been so many times. This is bad enough how I'm feeling at the moment but if it really takes hold I know it'll get even worse. I know I put my hubby under a microscope and nothing looks good when it's that magnified and distorted...I know when I feel OK I don't have all these thoughts and feelings...but I just don't know how to determine once and for all to say this is OCD...this isn't just you over-reacting this is OCD distorting. Writing that I started to feel like I wasn't being true to myself...I'm starting to panic even just writing this thinking what if it's all true and I've made a mistake?

How can you get free from all this anxiety? If it's not one issue it's another...I don't want to live my life wasting time fretting.

Sorry...just feeling a bit stressed out as you can prolly tell...hope you're all doing OK...take care, Rachel

I can relate somewhat i obsess over minor things at times in fact i was just doing it obessing over a couple of peoples egotiscisim and how i fell kind of rejected hurt and angry by it .. but the truth of the matter is in the scheme of things it does not make a fart in a whirwinds difference what they think of me or what i think of them lol.. but yet im wasting my time and getting myself angry and frustrated over it ..its silly .but its this condition i have im sure of it ...

might i suggest something regarding the sauce pans and i could be completely and utterly wrong this is just an opinion.. ok .

sometimes when we are going through larger struggles such as fears about unpardonable sin, if we are saved ect .. i think we minds refocus some of that energy onto smaller things that have no signifigance .perhaps its a defense mechanisim, perhaps its simply an over spill where all that fear and frustration has to go somewhere .. im not qualified to say this is true right, but i wonder if it is ...because it has to go somewhere ..

 

[kaykay9.0]

Thanks Sad and KayKay. I think I'd have felt similarly about the unpainted walls...you've done well to let it lie! Yes I agree that it isn't normal to get anxious about a set of saucepans! You should have seen some of my attempts to choose toothpaste! LOL But then it isn't normal to get anxious about a brick wall but the truth was it was too high and changing it was a good thing to do. My dilemma comes from thinking that if I get anxious about things that do need attending to then how will I know which things are genuine concerns. The ROCD is the one that this usually affects with me thinking well maybe my concerns were right and valid and that just throws up hideous feelings and thoughts. I'm trying not to go there but it's so hard. I know the idea is to say "so what it doesn't matter" but it does matter...it matters very, very much if I'm living a lie. I agree KayKay that with marriage once the decision's made there's no more to be done anyway and I certainly wouldn't contemplate divorce. I don't WANT to divorce him...the trouble I have is the intense need to know whether or not marrying him was right or wrong. How will I ever know when my anxiety grounds in things big, small, important or unimportant? I feel bad even writing this as if I've somehow been disloyal to him. I can feel the ROCD issue rising up within me and I don't know how to stop it and to not go slipping down into that hideous place I've been so many times. This is bad enough how I'm feeling at the moment but if it really takes hold I know it'll get even worse. I know I put my hubby under a microscope and nothing looks good when it's that magnified and distorted...I know when I feel OK I don't have all these thoughts and feelings...but I just don't know how to determine once and for all to say this is OCD...this isn't just you over-reacting this is OCD distorting. Writing that I started to feel like I wasn't being true to myself...I'm starting to panic even just writing this thinking what if it's all true and I've made a mistake?

How can you get free from all this anxiety? If it's not one issue it's another...I don't want to live my life wasting time fretting.

Sorry...just feeling a bit stressed out as you can prolly tell...hope you're all doing OK...take care, Rachel

Prayers for you today, Rachel. Well, I think this is why we ultimately get back to saying that you need to look at the big picture and treat the OCD, not just the symptoms of it. Now, I have read what you said about the difficulty with your medical system there etc. so I realize that may be problematic for you, but I would just encourage you to do anything you can in that direction.

 

[ObsessedButBlessed]

Well, if you think about it logically (not always easy to do with OCD), was it really "the truth" that the wall was too high? Taking anxiety out of the equation, having a wall too high or too low isn't going to affect your life for better or worse. Neither is having the right saucepans or toothpaste. So while trading saucepans in for different ones or lowering the height of the wall may relieve your anxiety, I would argue that it didn't mean that the anxiety was necessarily RIGHT and that it then means that all the anxiety you have about your relationship was also right, as well.

In fact, a normal functioning human brain would not send anxiety signals at all in any of these situations. However our overactive emotional sector (responsible for fear) thinks something is amiss and is firing off warning signals - whether they are valid or not.

For example, a normal functioning human brain would think to yourself, well, that wall is too high, I think it needs to be lowered. The normal functioning brain does NOT say "ALERT! ALERT! The wall is too high and it must be lowered otherwise everytime I look at it, think about it, etc. I'll start to send panic signals!"

The thing about OCD is that when we're in the midst of it, we can never be sure it's really just OCD. There is always an element of fear, doubt, guilt, etc. that keeps us from truly accepting/believing that it is "just OCD." After all, if we could accept it and truly believe it, all fear would be erased and OCD would disappear, since its main lifelines are fear and doubt. I remember talking with a girl who suffers from ROCD as well and she said "I wish God would just come down from heaven and tell me it was the right thing to marry my husband." I responded, "but then you'd doubt that it was really God himself and if you heard the message right .... that's what OCD does!" It creates a feeling of doubt even when we have no logical reason to doubt.

When I first started ERP, all I did was simply say "maybe so" in response to my spikes and refusing to answer the questions any other way. After awhile I noticed I was spiking more, but ruminating about it a lot less. It was when I started fearing the thoughts again that it flared up. OCD is great at sensing when you are fearing the thoughts again... which is how it snares you and brings you in again to the cycle of fear. If you feel the ROCD issue rising up again my guess is you're constantly checking to see if the thoughts bother you and elicit an anxious/bad response. It's definitely what I do. When I find myself doing this I use a "flagging" technique. As you know, we can obsess without even realizing it. As soon as I realize it, I say something like "gotcha!" or "that's so sneaky..." and say ok, that's fine, but i'm going to think about the topic of my choice right now. The point is to not react by saying "no no no no! I dont' want to think about this!" and have a reaction of fear to the thoughts, rather say "ok, if you want to send me those signals, that's fine, but I'm going to focus on something that *I* want to focus on right now."

Praying for you!!!

 

[picassoui]

Rachel I agree with most of what Sad said but i disagree with the comment regarding the wall .. Actually normal functioning brains often experience the same thing that you were describing ..You don't have to be mentally ill to have an irrational obsession. But the important thing is that you can refocus ..
and i hope that you can because i know how draining it can be ..

 

[RachelZ]

Thanks for all your replies. Yes Picassoui I think you're absolutely right in that sometimes the anxiety can refocus onto something else...I've sometimes described my anxiety like lightning wanting to ground in something. You're also right in that you don't have to be mentally ill to have an irrational obsession though I think something that really caused a lot of distress might indicate at least some degree of mental/emotional unrest. I hear what Sad is saying though in that it is not the norm to get so distressed about something that may not be exactly right but isn't a life and death situation. Like today I've been anxious to the point of almost feeling sick over some silly saucepans...and what is almost funny if it wasn't so sad is that tomorrow it could be replaced by something else. The temptation is, as with anything OCD latches onto, that if you can just figure out or fix this one situation then you'll be OK, when in reality you'll only be OK till the next urgent thing that needs sorting. I think if there's one thing I've learnt anew today it's that at some point I have to say "NO, STOP!" cos however much it feels like I have to sort things to feel OK the reality is the feeling OK will never last. Ridiculous though it sounds I almost feel like I need to feel less anxious and more settled in my mind before trying to really tackle things whether through ERP and/or mindfullness. You're so right KayKay in that it's the OCD that needs tackling before any situations can be realistically addressed. I should know this by now but I guess in some ways the way I am has gone on for so long I just try to deal with it the way I allways have. It's only in recent years I had a diagnosis of OCD made but the reality is this has probably been hindering me for most of my life. And if truth be told, I'm scared...really scared of addressing it as OCD. I kinda realised with sadness tonight that I can't even really help people on here cos I'm too scared to even really tell them their fears are OCD...though I've realised this for some time but it kind of hit home tonight. To have this and not even be able to fully use my experiences to help others with the same condition sucks! Thanks for your encouragement to sort things KayKay...I know you're right. I feel like an alcoholic...just one more drink and I'll be fine...but instead it's just one more problem to be solved and then I'll be OK...if I can just get peace over the current issue then I'll treat the next issue as OCD and try and lick this thing. But that's crazy cos there'll allways be another problem that will drive me to fix it before I treat the root cause...the OCD.

Thanks Sad...you talk so much sense...and you're right, the normal thing to do is not to think "Agh I've got to fix this or I'll never be able to cope with the resulting anxiety!" That's the bottom line...the anxiety in a lot of instances is worse than the problems in and of themselves. I'm still confused about how to differentiate between legitimate concerns...I don't know how to get over that. I just have this horrible feeling that wells up that maybe the big issues have been clouded by my abnormal anxiety but that at the back of them are real problems. I know you know how scary a thought that is when you're contemplating your life partner!! And the guilt that results isn't that pleasant either!! That's a really good way of responding by saying "Maybe so!" I tell you something whatever you may think of yourself you're one strong cookie. I know how terrible I can feel and yet you with similar feelings have really given the OCD what for!! (Hope that doesn't sound patronising...it's not meant to!) Thanks so much for your prayers...and again for that scripture...re-read it and will keep referring back to it cos it's a good 'un!

Thanks again guys...I feel pretty pants about all this...sorry think that's an Englishism...it means rubbish but then you prolly guessed that! I just feel like I am going to spend my life going from one anxiety crisis to another and never get the courage to change. That seems to me an awful waste of a life. The bottom line is I'm so afraid that a lot of this is not OCD but just me being too wimpy to face life head on and accept things as they are. I think thinking has become my god...I certainly seem to put more active trust in it than in the REAL God! Sorry I've rambled on...guess I'm just offloading. It can get kinda lonely when the OCD focusses on your relationship cos it's not something you can easily share with your partner or anyone else for that matter. My best friend is fab but has enough on her plate at the moment without me needing to dump on her every five minutes! Anyway...the housework is calling...take care and thanks again, Rachel

PS Sad, if you don't mind saying, do you share with your hubby about your ROCD? I think I hurt mine when he knows there's something up but I don't tell him what...it doesn't seem appropriate to but I don't want to hurt him either. Don't worry if you'd rather not say.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Oh, Rachel. I definitely know what you mean. "If I could just solve THIS problem, figure out this ONE dilemna..." Even knowing what I know doesn't mean I handle it right either. But just knowing, finally, that I do struggle with OCD, just knowing that most likely my fears are distorted by that HAS been enormously helpful and empowering to me.

Of course, OCD tells us or argues with us that well, what IF it's NOT OCD THIS time??? Again, at some point we just have to realize that 99.999999999% of the time, it IS. Problem is, as we've discussed before, OCD doesn't like to tolerate ANY degree of uncertainty. But apparently, if we want the cure, uncertainty at some level MUST be tolerated or we just keep on chasing our tails so to speak!!

Again, I haven't arrived. I hope some day I do, but right now, as I said, at least knowledge is power.

Say, Rachel, have you ever looked at the website by Dr. Philipson www.ocdonline.com ? If you haven't, I think you should. One caveat~~ I don't agree with literally everything he says, (I think some things I disagree with from a Christian standpoint) but this guy has a REALLY good grasp of how OCD works, IMO. Particularly what he calls the "Pure O" kind, which religious OCD often is. You should check out his articles, if you haven't already.

((hugs!))

 

[ObsessedButBlessed]

Hi Rachel, I really feel the pain coming through in your posts.. I'm so sorry you're going through a rough patch. When we're in the midst of it our world just seems so gloomy, but I have faith you can get through this. If I can, you can!! I know you have it in you!!!

To answer your question no I don't really tell my husband about my obsessions. I just feel that it would be hurtful, and I know that confessing just relieves my anxiety so its a compulsion. This isn't so hard with the love obsessions but when it switches to if he's faithful to me obsession I have a harder time not confessing and seeking reassurance. There is so much guilt and shame with these types of obsessions (religious and relationship) that I usually just end up keeping it inside. Besides, I have been dealing with this stuff for like 3 years now.. it never changes and it's always the same obsession ... maybe the theme changes a bit each time but the overall subject is the same. Same story, different characters as I like to say.

Honestly, when it gets too much to handle I just bring it all to God, and ask him to relieve my obsessive mind and painful emotions. Within minutes I feel much calmer and more focused. The thoughts might still be there in the background, but if you're anything like me, it's the feelings that are the most torturous. I have crazy thoughts all the time, so it's not so much the issue (except when the obsessing snowballs into some really crazy thoughts), it's the bad feelings and anxiety that trip me up every time.

Lamentations is really an intersting book focusing on the laments of Isreal. One thing I have always felt is that we are created in the likeness of God and that means our emotions, He understands perfectly. So I always feel better when I just bare my soul to God, and tell him if I'm angry, hurt, lonely, feeling abandoned, etc. Even Jeremiah (author of Lamentations) felt ignored: "Even when I call out or cry for help, he shuts out my prayer." (chapter 3 v.8). But God our father is faithful to us. (Even as I write that I feel a pinch of anxiety as my OCD spiked a bit asking if I really had any faith!)

One last thing... about differentiating between a legitimate thought or OCD. I have a few rules. If it's related to my obsession, it's OCD. No arguing. So if I get a thought and I actually have to start debating if it's OCD... it's OCD. If this thought is related to my obsession and I don't like the thought... it's OCD, and warrants a "maybe so" or "who knows" answer.

I HIGHLY recommend this article: http://westsuffolkpsych.homestead.com/Sin.html it really helped me when my religious obsessions were in full gear last year.

 

[RachelZ]

Thanks so much for that Sad...it is so helpful to know you hear and understand!!

Thanks for sharing how you deal with things with your hubby...I don't think it would be goo to tell mine all my thoughts but I know I do hurt him with my silence. He feels I lie to him and in a way he's prolly right. I will say I'm OK when I'm clearly not which makes me feel even worse. Sometimes I try and be more honest without going into details but that's not allways so easy either. And it's so hard to love as if the feelings wern't there! I so agree that it's the feelings and anxiety that are the real killers! I've been struggling with it this weekend and it's so horrible. I wish it was something else that I could share with him...but then I'd prolly wish it were something else again!

I think choosing to see all thoughts related to your obsession as the OCD is no bad thing! Like I've just said in another thread, when you treat the OCD then whatever is left, if anything, can be approached in a much clearer way. I guess my problem is really accepting that this issue is OCD in the first place. I've been struggling even this evening...we've been out with some people though I left early to go and deal with our son. Sometimes I just see other people and think well they don't feel like me...maybe if I was with the right person I wouldn't feel like this either...then I start comparing and contrasting and then it feels less and less like OCD and more and more like I've just been too afraid to realise the truth andsuddenly it is dawning on me whether I want it to or not. When I feel like this I think things along the lines of "but why God...if it was all true after all why have you let me believe it was OCD? Why bring clarity now? Why show it's not OCD after all now and not have done so before. And yet never can I say I regret marrying my hubby! It's all so crazy and what's worse is there's someone who is paying the price for all my anxiety and that's my hubby. He is not getting the love and care he deserves, nor the wife he needs! That makes me sad!

Thanks for the link...I think I read that ages ago...I also think I've read a book by him. I'm glad you found him helpful with the religous OCD.

It was helpful what you said about Lamentations and the fact that even Jeremiah felt ignored by God. I think I usually interpret bits like that to mean God really was shutting out the person's prayer rather than it being that the person felt ignored but that God wasn't actually doing that.

I really hope you're having a good and peaceful weekend...take care and thanks again for your understanding and wisdom...Rachel