Can anyone give me an answer?

Polycarp1 · Mar 4, 2008

Zaac said:
Here's the deal. Remove God from the equation and you can justify doing whatever you want. So you asking folks not to use quotations from the Bible is the equivalent of you saying you don't want to know what God has to say on the matter. As such, it should behoove anyone to try and answer your question when you don't want to listen to what the God Who created you says.

God =/= the Bible.

One is our omnipotent Creator. The other is a collection of writings by human beings, which to be sure contains thing He wishes us to know and do. But to equate the two, as if God cannot do anything but what the Bible says, is elevating it to the level of Him.

Second, I believe gwdboi has the right to ask that, for the obverse of the reason that numerous threads in GT and CP&E pose a question and then ask, "Justify your answers by relevant Bible passages." There, citing it is expected; here, it's requested we don't. Otherwise, we'd be free to cite or not as we felt appropriate.

BreadAlone · Mar 4, 2008

Polycarp1 said:
God =/= the Bible.

One is our omnipotent Creator. The other is a collection of writings by human beings, which to be sure contains thing He wishes us to know and do. But to equate the two, as if God cannot do anything but what the Bible says, is elevating it to the level of Him.

Second, I believe gwdboi has the right to ask that, for the obverse of the reason that numerous threads in GT and CP&E pose a question and then ask, "Justify your answers by relevant Bible passages." There, citing it is expected; here, it's requested we don't. Otherwise, we'd be free to cite or not as we felt appropriate.

Since the Bible is God's word, he can't and won't go against it, lest you mean to imply God is a liar.

The Bible is not equal to God, but the Bible is God's will. We should LIVE on the Bible; and THAT'S a principle of CHRIST himself.

BreadAlone · Mar 4, 2008

UnitedInChrist said:
You go against your own logic in your very first sentence. First off, you incorrectly put homosexuality in with crimes that VIOLATE OTHER PEOPLE. [YADA YADA]Homosexuality impacts whom else other than the homosexual? You're right...NO ONE! Two consenting adults can do whatever they want together. Should one be a minor..then there is an issue for both hetero and homo sexuals..You are violating someone under age. Homosexuality is ONE PERSON...which does not bring violence to others, nor are you stealing, raping, abusing others...It is your sexuality. Period. End of story. For you to use the arguement and put it in with violent CRIMES IS IN ITSELF CRIMMINAL....

As I said "But actively engaging in homosexuality not only causes your partner to sin, but belittles God's wonderful gift of marriage, abuses his gift of sex, and blinds people to the ultimate relationship exampled by marriage; the relationship between Christ and his Church."

Again, it most certainly does affect another person; the partner for one, and secondly anyone viewing your relationship which misconveys the third point above.

hence the reason why so many christians do not practice their faith any longer. They are tired of the self-righteous being the squeeky wheel and pushing THEIR AGENDAS on what is moral and not.

No, they're tired of following the holy example Christ painstakingly lived, and would rather follow their own agendas rather than the will of the Almighty.

MANY HETEROSEXUALS have sex the same way homosexuals do. In fact, many homosexuals don't even have the sex that most think they do. Belittling marriage? Hmmmm...wonder what your thoughts are on the 70% divorce rate in this country??? I think HETEROSEXUALS BELITTLE MARRIAGE FAR BETTER THAN GAY PEOPLE MY DEAR!

If this were "Debates on Heterosexual Perversion," that'd be all fine and dandy. But where discussing homosexuality. Quit passing the buck.

Polycarp1 · Mar 4, 2008

BreadAlone said:
Since the Bible is God's word, he can't and won't go against it, lest you mean to imply God is a liar.

The Bible is not equal to God, but the Bible is God's will. We should LIVE on the Bible; and THAT'S a principle of CHRIST himself.

I've posted this before, and it's not intended to mock you, Bread Alone, but to stress how important I feel that distinction is.

John the Beloved Disciple said:
1In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by the Bible; and without the Bible was not any thing made that was made.

***
14 And the Bible was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld its glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I'm sorry to be offensive to anyone, but if you're saying that the Bible is God's Word, then that's what you're saying.

BreadAlone · Mar 4, 2008

Polycarp1 said:
I've posted this before, and it's not intended to mock you, Bread Alone, but to stress how important I feel that distinction is.

I'm sorry to be offensive to anyone, but if you're saying that the Bible is God's Word, then that's what you're saying.

Christ is the figurative "Word made flesh." Christ personified God's will in a way the scriptures couldn't convey it.

But you know what, the scriptures are the word of God, as in, God's love letter to humanity. Paul calls it a "sharp double-edged sword."

If you read Revelation, you see the double-edged sword(word) protruding from the mouth of Christ(Word).

FaithLikeARock · Mar 4, 2008

So the Bible is God's Word because the Bible SAYS it's God's Word? If it were that easy then Satan would have no problem. Luckily God gave us the ability to be a little skeptical. If it were is as simple as that then I am frightened by what Bible-believing Christians will do when a convincing fake Christ comes along and says he's Christ. He's said it, obviously it's true right?

BreadAlone · Mar 4, 2008

FaithLikeARock said:
So the Bible is God's Word because the Bible SAYS it's God's Word? If it were that easy then Satan would have no problem. Luckily God gave us the ability to be a little skeptical. If it were is as simple as that then I am frightened by what Bible-believing Christians will do when a convincing fake Christ comes along and says he's Christ. He's said it, obviously it's true right?

We know the Bible is true because the Holy Spirit has called us by the gospel, enlightened us with his gifts, sanctified and kept us in the one true faith.

The Bible is coherent and spans a wide range of time, with prophecies taking place even in the present.

Christ's children know his voice.

BigBadWlf · Mar 4, 2008

BreadAlone said:
They are not a "minority." They're not some ethnic group. They are hardened sinners who need the love of Christ just like the rest of sinful humanity.

Yes they are a minority group. You dont get to redefine what is and is not a minority just because it helps you justify your petty personal prejudice.

BigBadWlf · Mar 4, 2008

BreadAlone said:
[/font]

They are sinners, just like everyone else.

Which doesnt address the OP

Blacks are sinners does this justify prejudice based on skin color?
Jews are sinners, does this justify prejudice base don religion?
Women are sinners, does this justify prejudice based on gender.
The handicapped are sinners, does this justify prejudice based on mobility or sensory limitation?

If it agrees with the Bible, it is not putting aside morality. To agree with something contrary to scripture is putting aside morality.

Like how you put aside John 13:34-35

How dare you, some aquaintance on the internet whom I have never met, accuse me of not loving. Following the will of God is not unloving..claiming the Bible is falacy is.

Yes how dare I speak the truthshame on me.
Your posts speak to your disdain for the commandment of Jesus.

I don't know what minority you speak of..all I've done is show God's condemnation of a sinful act.

The minority you have chosen to be prejudiced against.

BigBadWlf · Mar 4, 2008

gwdboi said:
I'm sorry, but in case you haven't noticed... the "love of chirst" apparently KILLS. It really makes me sick. Nobody has ever killed in the name of the goddess. As a matter of fact, she cries at the death of every innocent. I tell you this much... it's thoughts like "hardened sinners" that start the bigotry... thoughts like that make us seem a little less human... and when something is just a little less human it makes it okay to kill for some sort of sick pleasure.

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg

BigBadWlf · Mar 4, 2008

BreadAlone said:
The actions of people who call themselves Christians and yet frankly never act like it is a concern for another thread. The OP asked what logically moral reason there is for homosexuality to be wrong, and we're trying to discuss that here. Thank you for the false accusation.

No you dont get to pretend that people who act out against a minority are somehow separate and inferior to you. The attitude and prejudice you advocate and present here is no different form those propel. You need to take responsibility for your rhetoric and the consequences of what you preach

BigBadWlf · Mar 4, 2008

BreadAlone said:
Wrong. Homosexuality is a symptom of a greater "disease": sin.

Sin infects ALL people, not exclusively homosexuals. I base this observation on the best source there is, the holy Word of God.

How sad that you feel you must denigrate an entire minority just to justify your prejudice.

I am reminded of how some scientists of the 1800s worked to prove that blacks were inferior to whites.

The notion is the same - dehumanize a minority and prejudice becomes easier

gwdboi · Mar 4, 2008

BreadAlone said:
Since the Bible is God's word, he can't and won't go against it, lest you mean to imply God is a liar.

The Bible is not equal to God, but the Bible is God's will. We should LIVE on the Bible; and THAT'S a principle of CHRIST himself.

You seem to have it so together... you must have figured it all out haven't you? You have an answer for every question. Answer me this: where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the will of god?

BigBadWlf · Mar 5, 2008

BreadAlone said:
We know the Bible is true because the Holy Spirit has called us by the gospel, enlightened us with his gifts, sanctified and kept us in the one true faith.

The Bible is coherent and spans a wide range of time, with prophecies taking place even in the present.

Christ's children know his voice.

Exactly the same thing can be said of the Koran

Phinehas2 · Mar 5, 2008

Dear Polycarp1,

God =/= the Bible.

The comment the poster made was the use of the Bible quotes to show what what God has to say on the matter
Your comment therefore isnt the same as what the poster said.

One is our omnipotent Creator. The other is a collection of writings by human beings, which to be sure contains thing He wishes us to know and do. But to equate the two, as if God cannot do anything but what the Bible says, is elevating it to the level of Him.

That isnt quite true. Take the gospels for starters, the Bible contains the words of Jesus Christ, who is God. God is not capable of doing the opposite to what He has said in the Bible. And this is the heart of the issue you have with what the Bible says.

The Bible is God's testimony as recorded by men.

OllieFranz · Mar 5, 2008

Zaac said:
Here's the deal. Remove God from the equation and you can justify doing whatever you want. So you asking folks not to use quotations from the Bible is the equivalent of you saying you don't want to know what God has to say on the matter. As such, it should behoove anyone to try and answer your question when you don't want to listen to what the God Who created you says.

Polycarp1 said:
God =/= the Bible.

One is our omnipotent Creator. The other is a collection of writings by human beings, which to be sure contains thing He wishes us to know and do. But to equate the two, as if God cannot do anything but what the Bible says, is elevating it to the level of Him.

Second, I believe gwdboi has the right to ask that, for the obverse of the reason that numerous threads in GT and CP&E pose a question and then ask, "Justify your answers by relevant Bible passages." There, citing it is expected; here, it's requested we don't. Otherwise, we'd be free to cite or not as we felt appropriate.

Also, leaving Bible quotes out and asking for naturalistic explanations is not "removing God from the equation, not according to Paul's writings in the Bible. Don't you trust Paul to know what he is saying, Zaac?

[BIBLE]Romans 1:18-20[/BIBLE]

davedjy · Mar 5, 2008

BreadAlone said:
Wrong. Homosexuality is a symptom of a greater "disease": sin.

Sin infects ALL people, not exclusively homosexuals. I base this observation on the best source there is, the holy Word of God.

Sin does not explain away a sexual orientation to the same sex. Sin does not explain why a gay person is only attracted to the same sex (bisexuals aside).

UnitedInChrist · Mar 5, 2008

BigBadWlf said:
How sad that you feel you must denigrate an entire minority just to justify your prejudice.

I am reminded of how some scientists of the 1800s worked to prove that blacks were inferior to whites.

The notion is the same - dehumanize a minority and prejudice becomes easier

Well said. What i find the "norm" sad to say is that people have their prejudices. We're all human...i myself even have them and admit it. However, what is more the issue is some go the extra step to then turn to the bible to justify what they already have decided for on their own. It's been done time and time again. It was done with slavery, it was done with racisim, it was done with interrace marriage, and was done with women... Not that long ago, in our own sad past, our bible belt today held strongly to slavery and also supported their issue by saying it was acceptable in the bible....it seemed to allow them to sleep better at nite. Then...something happened. Views changed...now all of a sudden everyone KNOWS it was never acceptable and all is right with the world. The same will happen with homosexuality. Sexuality should be of the least concern to anyone when it comes to all the issues that we as Christians should focus on...world suffering, hatred, violence, hunger, war, social justice, etc... Sexuality is the least concern we should have in the 21st century.
I'm gay. I'm fortunate enough to come from a strong christian family and they could care less because there is so much more expected of christians then to beat someone up for who they are. IF just a quarter of the energy that is spent on all of these forms, was put into doing something to help out the people of Kenya, Chad, Iraq, our own hungry, homeless, etc...I think we would be much better off. IMHO of course....

KCKID · Mar 5, 2008

UnitedInChrist said:
Well said. What i find the "norm" sad to say is that people have their prejudices. We're all human...i myself even have them and admit it. However, what is more the issue is some go the extra step to then turn to the bible to justify what they already have decided for on their own. It's been done time and time again. It was done with slavery, it was done with racisim, it was done with interrace marriage, and was done with women... Not that long ago, in our own sad past, our bible belt today held strongly to slavery and also supported their issue by saying it was acceptable in the bible....it seemed to allow them to sleep better at nite. Then...something happened. Views changed...now all of a sudden everyone KNOWS it was never acceptable and all is right with the world. The same will happen with homosexuality. Sexuality should be of the least concern to anyone when it comes to all the issues that we as Christians should focus on...world suffering, hatred, violence, hunger, war, social justice, etc... Sexuality is the least concern we should have in the 21st century.
I'm gay. I'm fortunate enough to come from a strong christian family and they could care less because there is so much more expected of christians then to beat someone up for who they are. IF just a quarter of the energy that is spent on all of these forms, was put into doing something to help out the people of Kenya, Chad, Iraq, our own hungry, homeless, etc...I think we would be much better off. IMHO of course....

I couldn't have said it any better myself. This issue IS really the mountain made from the mole-hill.

UnitedInChrist · Mar 5, 2008

BreadAlone said:
As I said "But actively engaging in homosexuality not only causes your partner to sin, but belittles God's wonderful gift of marriage, abuses his gift of sex, and blinds people to the ultimate relationship exampled by marriage; the relationship between Christ and his Church."

Again, it most certainly does affect another person; the partner for one, and secondly anyone viewing your relationship which misconveys the third point above.

No, they're tired of following the holy example Christ painstakingly lived, and would rather follow their own agendas rather than the will of the Almighty.

If this were "Debates on Heterosexual Perversion," that'd be all fine and dandy. But where discussing homosexuality. Quit passing the buck.

Ok then....please enlighten me as to the current destruction of "marriage". Since gays "belittle" it even though they can't get married, I want to hear what you have to say about the sad current state of affairs with it based on how heterosexuals destroyed it.

Can anyone give me an answer?

Born-again Liberal Episcopalian

Hylian Knight

Hylian Knight

Born-again Liberal Episcopalian

Hylian Knight

Let the human mind loose.

Hylian Knight

BigBadWlf

Guest

BigBadWlf

Guest

BigBadWlf

Guest

BigBadWlf

Guest

BigBadWlf

Guest

Regular Member

BigBadWlf

Guest

Phinehas2

Guest

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency