• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Can anyone explain this?

Status
Not open for further replies.

jussanuddername

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2005
904
42
63
Pittsburgh PA USA
✟23,767.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,



So, if I sin willfully, I am not a new birth in Christ? But all are sinners?

This is a serious question. I know I willfully sin, but I thought Jesus died for my sins, and everyone who believes in him will go to heaven, is one with him...etc
 

ozmum

Active Member
Jan 22, 2007
172
17
Visit site
✟22,888.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This is a very good question.

Sinners are not saved .
Repentant sinners who have been transformed into saints are .

What does that mean -
The whole issue on this earth is sin and rebellion.
These have seperated us from God.
Jesus came to bridge the gulf that sin made and to restore us to God.
In order to do this He brings us pardon and grace to live overcoming lives.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Christians are people who used to be servants of sin but since the grace of Christ came into their lives are the servants of righteousness.

God sent Jesus to save us .
What does He save us from ?
The power of sin in our lives !

John 1:121:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Not rebels anymore but sons of God.

If you want to read more on this ,go to http://www.homechurchresources.com
,click newsletters and choose Nov'06.
 
Upvote 0

Sketcher

Born Imperishable
Feb 23, 2004
39,049
9,490
✟425,257.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Hebrews is all about the context. If you want to get that book, you've got to read it from beginning to end and know who it is addressed to. The audience is Jews who have heard about Jesus. The emphasis of the book is trusting in His sacrifice alone to atone for sin, and that the old sacrificial system is obsolete. There were temptations to just go back to the old ways, and the author is emphatic that this is not an option. The "sin" he talks about is relying on the old system and not accepting Christ fully. Since He did it all on the cross and the old sacrifices are obsolete, those that still rely on them are up a creek without a paddle. At least that is what I gathered from reading the whole chapter and the whole book. This is what respected commentator John Gill said about it:

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible said:
Hebrews 10:26

For if we sin wilfully�
] Which is not to be understood of a single act of sin, but rather of a course of sinning; nor of sins of infirmity through temptation, or even of grosser acts of sin, but of voluntary ones; and not of all voluntary ones, or in which the will is engaged and concerned, but of such which are done on set purpose, resolutely and obstinately; and not of immoral practices, but of corrupt principles, and acting according to them; it intends a total apostasy from the truth, against light and evidence, joined with obstinacy.

After that we have received the knowledge of the truth;
either of Jesus Christ, or of the Scriptures, or of the Gospel, or of some particular doctrine, especially the principal one, salvation by Christ; of which there may be a notional knowledge, when there is no experimental knowledge; and which is received not into the heart, but into the head: and whereas the apostle speaks in the first person plural, we, this is used not so much with regard to himself, but others; that so what he delivered might come with greater weight upon them, and be more readily received by them; when they observed he entertained no hard thoughts or jealousies of them, which would greatly distress the minds of those that were truly gracious. Moreover, the apostles use this way of speaking, when they do not design themselves at all, but others, under the same visible profession of religion, and who belonged to the same community of believers; see (1 Peter 4:3) (Titus 3:3) (Ephesians 2:3) compared with (Acts 22:3) (26:5) (Philippians 3:6) . Besides, these words are only hypothetical, and do not prove that true believers could, or should, or do sin in this manner: to which may be added, that true believers are manifestly distinguished from these persons, (Hebrews 10:38,39) ,

there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins;
meaning, not typical sacrifice; for though the daily sacrifice ought to have ceased at the death of Christ, yet it did not in fact until the destruction of Jerusalem; but the sacrifice of Christ, which will never be repeated; Christ will die no more; his blood will not be shed again, nor his sacrifice reiterated; nor will any other sacrifice be offered; there will be no other Saviour; there is no salvation in any other, nor any other name whereby we must be saved. These words have been wrongly made use of to prove that persons sinning after baptism are not to be restored to communion again upon repentance; and being understood of immoral actions wilfully committed, have given great distress to consciences burdened with the guilt of sin, committed after a profession of religion; but the true sense of the whole is this, that after men have embraced and professed the truths of the Gospel, and particularly this great truth of it, that Jesus Christ is the only Saviour of men by his blood and sacrifice; and yet after this, against all evidence, all the light and convictions of their own consciences, they wilfully deny this truth, and obstinately persist in the denial of it; seeing there is no more, no other sacrifice for sin, no other Saviour, nor any salvation in any other way, the case of these men must be desperate; there is no help for them, nor hope of them; for by this their sin they shut up against themselves, in principle and practice, the way of salvation, as follows.

All that said, remember 1 John 1:9 -

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
 
Upvote 0

jussanuddername

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2005
904
42
63
Pittsburgh PA USA
✟23,767.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

1Jn 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Mat 7:12-14 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Mat 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jas 1:22-27 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

1Jn 3:5-6 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Ki 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

2Ch 6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;

Psa 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Jer 2:22-27 For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD. How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done: thou art a swift dromedary traversing her ways; A wild ass used to the wilderness, that snuffeth up the wind at her pleasure; in her occasion who can turn her away? all they that seek her will not weary themselves; in her month they shall find her. Withhold thy foot from being unshod, and thy throat from thirst: but thou saidst, There is no hope: no; for I have loved strangers, and after them will I go. As the thief is ashamed when he is found, so is the house of Israel ashamed; they, their kings, their princes, and their priests, and their prophets, Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

1Jn 2:2-5 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Rom 3:25-26 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Rev 1:5-6 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Rev 5:9-12 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

> Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the
> knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
>
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Num 15:27-31 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them. But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Luk 12:47-48 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

(CEV) Jesus answered, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty. But now that you claim to see, you will keep on being guilty."

Joh 15:22-25 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Joh 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Psa 11:1 <To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.> In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?

2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Psa 119:80 Let my heart be sound in thy statutes; that I be not ashamed.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rom 8:27-28 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
 
Upvote 0

Sketcher

Born Imperishable
Feb 23, 2004
39,049
9,490
✟425,257.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
They all pretty much add to the confusion.

Well, none of them really mean that you can lose your salvation if that is what you are concerned about. Or at very least if anyone could, then it is NOT easy to do and that if he or she repented and wanted back in, Jesus would take them back.

"Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
if we are faithless,
he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself." - 2 Timothy 2:11-13

There's a difference between unfaithfulness (which is easy) and outright disownment (which is hard).

Also:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:37-40

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." - John 5:24

"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." - John 10:27-29

The sheep are those that put their faith in Him. His sheep obey Him also, but this does not mean that they have a perfect record. And when one slips up, that does not mean that he ceases to be His sheep. After all, he has crossed from death to life. Not only that, He took back Peter (John 21:15-22) after he had committed full-blown disownment and wanted back in. How much more does God forgive the little matters!
 
Upvote 0

WarEagle

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2006
4,273
475
✟7,149.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,



So, if I sin willfully, I am not a new birth in Christ? But all are sinners?

This is a serious question. I know I willfully sin, but I thought Jesus died for my sins, and everyone who believes in him will go to heaven, is one with him...etc

The two verses are talking about sin in different contexts.

1 John 3:8 is talking to those Christians who sin in a momentary moral lapse.

Hebrews 10:26 is talking about those who claim to have recieved Christ but go on living in an unrepentant lifestyle of disobedience.

The difference can be summed up by thinking of sin as a swimming pool. In 1 John 3:8, you have people who fall into the pool and in Hebrews 10:26, you have people who dive into the pool.

We all sin, but if you're born again, then there's going to be a war within you between your flesh that wants to sin and your spirit, that will do anything to keep from disobeying God.

In the Hebrews verse, they didn't have that struggle and didn't care whether or not they disobeyed God.

Finally, simply believing in Jesus won't get you to Heaven anymore than believing in Mickey Mouse will get you into Disneyland.

The question is, have you been born again?
 
Upvote 0

jussanuddername

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2005
904
42
63
Pittsburgh PA USA
✟23,767.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
See, theirin lies the problem. I start questioning whether or not I am saved in the first place. Grace is a gift that cannot be earned through acts, right? So, all of this trying to do the right thing, praying, reading the word, trying to help others, trying to love everyone, forgiving others is meaningless if I am not one who God has chosen. This would explain why He doesn't answer the main prayer I have petitioned him for for years. All along, I thought I was saved, I believe Jesus is who the Bible says he is. I thought that's all that was required, you are telling me there is more? I can't believe I'm this terrible sinner, but as James said, you break one, you break them all. And if I love God, I will obey His commandments. Is it a lack of willingness on my part, or do I have nothing to do with it?
 
Upvote 0

heymikey80

Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Dec 18, 2005
14,496
921
✟41,809.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
See, theirin lies the problem. I start questioning whether or not I am saved in the first place. Grace is a gift that cannot be earned through acts, right? So, all of this trying to do the right thing, praying, reading the word, trying to help others, trying to love everyone, forgiving others is meaningless if I am not one who God has chosen. This would explain why He doesn't answer the main prayer I have petitioned him for for years. All along, I thought I was saved, I believe Jesus is who the Bible says he is. I thought that's all that was required, you are telling me there is more? I can't believe I'm this terrible sinner, but as James said, you break one, you break them all. And if I love God, I will obey His commandments. Is it a lack of willingness on my part, or do I have nothing to do with it?
Honestly? It doesn't answer why your prayer hasn't been answered -- it may say why your prayer has been answered, "Not yet, no."

If you would, try putting a different image on things, could you?

Take the image of, "I'm cleaning my room", or "I'm cleaning my closet."

God's saving His people. He's not done with them yet. But He hasn't finished cleaning us out, either. He's made the commitment, though. There's no stopping Him.
  • If you take away the requirement of a clean heart, then you kill God's motivation for cleaning you up.
  • If you hold that requirement of a clean heart, "without sin" for today, well, you're dead on arrival.
Yet both make complete sense if you're in the process of being cleansed by God. Theologically this is an area called sanctification.

That's why the same guy can say just a verse apart:
If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
The obvious conclusion: we will have sin, yet still walk in the light. What's the light do? It shows us our sins to put them away.
 
Upvote 0

MoNiCa4316

Totus Tuus
Jun 28, 2007
18,882
1,654
✟49,687.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,



So, if I sin willfully, I am not a new birth in Christ? But all are sinners?

This is a serious question. I know I willfully sin, but I thought Jesus died for my sins, and everyone who believes in him will go to heaven, is one with him...etc

Hi, well this is how I see it:
the first verse tells that we must acknowledge our sins. If we say that we have no sin, we are not saying the truth, because we are all sinners. So we confess our sins and repent, which means that we turn back from them.

I think the second verse says that once we know the truth, we should try not to sin. Notice it says 'willfully'. If we know the truth but don't repent (don't turn away from our sins and try to change), then we haven't really asked for forgiveness. If you want to obey God but make mistakes now and again, don't worry, God knows we're not perfect :) The important thing is that you keep up the standard and want to obey God. I think this verse is just telling us that once we've understood goodness, we should turn from our old ways and try to follow it. If you make a mistake, ask for forgiveness, and try again. God's mercy never ends :)

God bless



monica
 
Upvote 0

SinclairJ

Junior Member
Apr 25, 2006
43
8
50
Howell, MI
✟22,703.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I feel you confusion brother. I recently went thru a battle in which I couldn't understand how I could continue to sin when I know God. My creator, my Lord, my King, my reason for existence. How could I continue to do what is wrong when I "know" what the right thing to do is. Then I was led to Romans Chapter 7 in which Paul says, I am paraphrasing here, "I know what sin is and I know the right thing to do. But, it is not the right thing I do. I continue to do the wrong things in this life. It is a constant battle within. I know in my heart that I want to keep my promises to God, but sin is there with me." My hope and faith in God says that he will know my heart on judgement day and that I have tried to live my life to serve him and praise him, even though
I am so weak. God bless you in your search.
Just walk it out brother!!!!!!
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.