Can an infant be saved?

[StormyOne]

Some here would vehemently disagree with you. (you know...salvation is through human free choice... )

yeah I know... interesting though that God did not check with humankind first to get permission to "save" it, He just did it..... likewise, if humans could have saved themselves, they would not have needed a savior.....

 

[freeindeed2]

yeah I know... interesting though that God did not check with humankind first to get permission to "save" it, He just did it..... likewise, if humans could have saved themselves, they would not have needed a savior.....

Preachin' to the choir, my friend!

You know, if he had needed our permission we wouldn't have given it to him. LOL!

 

[StormyOne]

Preachin' to the choir, my friend!

You know, if he had needed our permission we wouldn't have given it to him. LOL!

lol probably.... we would have had to form a committee, checked to see if the idea was theologically correct, made sure he was a member in good and regular standing and of course adhered to our fundamental beliefs whatever they happened to be.....

 

[LightWorker1967]

yeah I know... interesting though that God did not check with humankind first to get permission to "save" it, He just did it..... likewise, if humans could have saved themselves, they would not have needed a savior.....

Everyone on this forum has something to contribute individually—uniquely—to the collective understanding and experience of God—beyond quoting new combinations from the Great Reference Book! Which is multi-thousands of years old and written from many perspectives by many people who lived in a quite different world.

Getting the Bible doesn't mean we lost God.

If we aren't up to the task of developing our spiritual gifts, let's delete fundamental #17 – people are used to having only 27 anyway.

A lot has happened on the planet in the last 2000 years—in science, in philosophy, in humanity. What do YOU experience? What can you discover personally that may be helpful to us? What do you sense about God—now? What are you up to with God these days—I want to know.

Throw out something wild to the world that you care about—and when someone asks you to prove it with scripture, just say it's something I know. And if they disagree, fine. Maybe you're wrong – maybe you're right. But at least you're trying to move!

Our ultimate source is the Source. It is not the Bible—as phenomenal and dear as the Bible is for most of us. And that means a lot of work, learning, failing, doubting, exploring on the way to knowing God. The "tuned instrument" quip wasn't meant to just be cute—if we can't talk to God in some way directly, it's time to study some foreign languages!

Back to this thread—God is looking out for the babies, for the indigenous people WAY back in jungle and all the "other" groups. And we are OK too. But that's the first page of the first chapter of the story of our spiritual lives. Now might want to continue tuning ourselves up and holding Light on a dark planet

 

[StormyOne]

Everyone on this forum has something to contribute individually—uniquely—to the collective understanding and experience of God—beyond quoting new combinations from the Great Reference Book! Which is multi-thousands of years old and written from many perspectives by many people who lived in a quite different world.

Getting the Bible doesn't mean we lost God.

If we aren't up to the task of developing our spiritual gifts, let's delete fundamental #17 – people are used to having only 27 anyway.

A lot has happened on the planet in the last 2000 years—in science, in philosophy, in humanity. What do YOU experience? What can you discover personally that may be helpful to us? What do you sense about God—now? What are you up to with God these days—I want to know.

Throw out something wild to the world that you care about—and when someone asks you to prove it with scripture, just say it's something I know. And if they disagree, fine. Maybe you're wrong – maybe you're right. But at least you're trying to move!

Our ultimate source is the Source. It is not the Bible—as phenomenal and dear as the Bible is for most of us. And that means a lot of work, learning, failing, doubting, exploring on the way to knowing God. The "tuned instrument" quip wasn't meant to just be cute—if we can't talk to God in some way directly, it's time to study some foreign languages!

Back to this thread—God is looking out for the babies, for the indigenous people WAY back in jungle and all the "other" groups. And we are OK too. But that's the first page of the first chapter of the story of our spiritual lives. Now might want to continue tuning ourselves up and holding Light on a dark planet

amen.... I like that..... gonna have to borrow this if you don't mind.....

 

[moicherie]

So can an infant be saved?

Yes an infant, child, teenager, adult has been saved long before they were born. Just like God does not need our permission to love us, He did not need our permission to save us. What we choose to do with the information is the real question. Its as if a generous benefactor leaves £10m in the bank, you can choose to withdraw the money or choose not to believe in His benevolence or existence and ignore the account.

 

[sentipente]

Don't forget that every infant conceived, by default has a fallen sinful nature even before drawing their first breath or having their first cognitive thought.

Sounds cute but it is not true. Human nature is not sinful. Human nature is capable of doing right and wrong. The issue in our salvation is not whether we do wrong things but whether anyone else but the Creator owns us. I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to indicate when legal title to the human race was transferred from the Creator of the universe to anyone else.

 

[OntheDL]

Children sin naturally. Before reaching the age of accountibility, they do not know right from wrong. So are they lost because they sin and can not repent their sins?

What does the bible say??? Read Leviticus 4. The sin of ignorance is paid for by the blood of the Lamb.

 

[kachow007]

I think that infants can't really truly understand God and His grace at a young age when they are developing. I believe that if an infant did die they would go to Heaven because they are to young to make a huge decision like that themselves. They haven't fully grasped right and wrong and their brains, I think, are not developed enough to understand what it truly means to be saved.

 

[sentipente]

It is one thing to know a doctrine but something totally different to know the God of Creation.

 

[NightEternal]

Don't forget that every infant conceived, by default has a fallen sinful nature even before drawing their first breath or having their first cognitive thought. They are sinners because they're born that way and are in need of a Savior. God is fair and just.

I agree with Free.

Hey, I'm a poet and didn't even know it!

 

[AndrewK788]

Sounds cute but it is not true. Human nature is not sinful. Human nature is capable of doing right and wrong. The issue in our salvation is not whether we do wrong things but whether anyone else but the Creator owns us. I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to indicate when legal title to the human race was transferred from the Creator of the universe to anyone else.

Where in the world did you get this belief? I honestly have never heard someone try to even argue that point before. Well, a Buddhist, but certainly not an SDA Christian.

As for the "legal title" thing, I understand God is the sole creator of us but I'm not sure what you meant. You ask when legal title of the human race transferred away from the Creatore--I suppose when the human race fell to sin. It could be argued that ownership of the human race transferred from God to Satan. God allows us to make that decision though because he gave us free choice. But that didn't stop him from saving us, or at least giving us a chance to be saved if we so chose. If we had never fallen from our Creator, why would He have sent a Savior? I think claiming human nature is not sinful and that we are capable of of controlling our own actions is straying dangerously far from Christianity, and the humility and understanding of our sin that we need in order to accept our own helplessness and embrace Jesus as our Savior.

Perhaps, I misunderstood your whole point, and if so forgive my rambling and please explain. Otherwise, I must say I entirely disagree with where you stand.

 

[mva1985]

Sounds cute but it is not true. Human nature is not sinful. Human nature is capable of doing right and wrong. The issue in our salvation is not whether we do wrong things but whether anyone else but the Creator owns us. I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to indicate when legal title to the human race was transferred from the Creator of the universe to anyone else.

Marking for future reference.

 

[sentipente]

Marking for future reference.

No need to mark it. I can rehearse it for you on request.

 

[sentipente]

Andrew, when it comes to straying the only thing I am worried about straying from is the truth of reality.

 

[mva1985]

No need to mark it. I can rehearse it for you on request.

I think you have already "rehearsed" it until you actually believe it.

 

[sentipente]

I think you have already "rehearsed" it until you actually believe it.

I was using a different meaning of the word rehearse that should have been obvious from the usage.

 

[mva1985]

I was using a different meaning of the word rehearse that should have been obvious from the usage.

And I was using it in its commonly understood definition.

 

[AndrewK788]

Andrew, when it comes to straying the only thing I am worried about straying from is the truth of reality.

Well, you certainly are entitled to your own opinion. But to me it seems that the truth of reality is of supreme importance, even above the reality of scripture in your view. Now if you can prove through God's Word your viewpoint, I'm all ears, but if it is only based on the "truth of reality" and human understanding, I'll stay where I am.

God bless.

 

[mva1985]

Well, you certainly are entitled to your own opinion. But to me it seems that the truth of reality is of supreme importance, even above the reality of scripture in your view. Now if you can prove through God's Word your viewpoint, I'm all ears, but if it is only based on the "truth of reality" and human understanding, I'll stay where I am.

God bless.

I think you have made a wise choice.