Can a VP have classified materials/can they declassify - fact check

[USincognito]

I've seen several of Donald's ardent believers claim that Vice Presidents aren't allowed to have classified documents or that they don't have the ability to declassify.

The issue of access is easy to dismiss. Jack Teixeira is an Air Force Sr Airman had a top secret clearance, and while he couldn't take them home, he did have access to them. Same with your average 1st term member of Congress, defense contractor or communications specialist with the State Department. Vice President's have much greater access to sensitive documents than any of them do. But can a Vice President declassify?

According to a 2009 Executive Order yes.

Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by:

(1) the President and the Vice President;​

According to this XO, Vice President's have the ability to classify and the ability to declassify.
Numerous fact checks have existed since Jan 2023 showing that to be the case.

Yes, vice presidents have the authority to declassify documents

Several VERIFY readers asked if a vice president can declassify documents. They can – here’s why.

www.wwltv.com

Fact check: Biden did have the authority to declassify documents as vice president

Legal experts told USA TODAY that Biden did have the authority to declassify documents when he was vice president under Barack Obama.

www.usatoday.com

Do Vice Presidents Not Have Authority To Declassify Documents?

The question surfaced after news broke that two batches of classified documents were found at President Joe Biden's Delaware home and former office.

www.snopes.com

 

[Sabertooth]

Your argument says that Presidents have the same authority.

 

[USincognito]

Your argument says that Presidents have the same authority.

Huh? Obviously the President has declassification authority.

I'm not making an argument per se. I'm presenting information to those who think that the Vice President does not have the ability to declassify documents.

What are you objecting to?

 

[Sabertooth]

What are you objecting to?

If a VPOTUS is not guilty of possessing classified documents because he can declassify them,
does it not follow that a POTUS can be innocent by the same rationale...?

 

[USincognito]

If a VPOTUS is not guilty of possessing classified documents because he can declassify them,
does it not follow that a POTUS can be innocent by the same rationale...?

Ah, got it. You haven't read the indictment. My comment has nothing to do with the indictment or Donald's case in particular. I'm just addressing the misconception that some members here have about Vice President's ability to declassify.

As far as possession goes, the issue of intent is the determining factor of criminality.

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

www.law.cornell.edu

a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.​

There's no indication that then VP Biden knowingly removed the docs with the intent to retain them. The one's at Penn Biden Center were in an envelope marked "VP Personal" and it's likely that the were mistakenly packed by GSA in Jan 2017.

https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-2071.html

a)​

 Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both;  and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.  As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.

Willfully and unlawfully.​

 

[perplexed]

If Trump can declassify to get himself out of trouble then Obama can declassify to get Biden out of trouble
I basically have no idea about the XO but maybe the section that says the president and vice president can classify is not relevant


t there is a whole other section discussing who can declassify.

Sec. 3.1. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order.

(b) Information shall be declassified or downgraded by:

(1) the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position and has original classification authority;

(2) the originator's current successor in function, if that individual has original classification authority;

(3) a supervisory official of either the originator or his or her successor in function, if the supervisory official has original classification authority;


Perhaps the president is a supervisory official for many people and the vice president is not

 

[durangodawood]

Whether or not a VP can declassify, the docs in question that Mike Pence had after leaving office were not declassified.

This is about Pence, right?

 

[USincognito]

Whether or not a VP can declassify, the docs in question that Mike Pence had after leaving office were not declassified.

Which keeps being ignored by our Donald supporting friends.

This is about Pence, right?

Several members have been making a big deal out of the fact that Vice Presidents can't declassify documents in their defense of Donald's theft and espionage.. I'm hoping the OP will cure their error.

 

[DaisyDay]

I remember when Bush II was in office, he gave his veep broad authority to classify and declassify. There was a bit of a kerfuffle for historians of the Vietnam War that one day, material in the Archives was suddenly off limits because Cheney decided to reclassify a bunch of historical stuff.

My takeaway was that the president could delegate some of that authority to his veep.

 

[mark46]

I remember when Bush II was in office, he gave his veep broad authority to classify and declassify. There was a bit of a kerfuffle for historians of the Vietnam War that one day, material in the Archives was suddenly off limits because Cheney decided to reclassify a bunch of historical stuff.

My takeaway was that the president could delegate some of that authority to his veep.

This may be semantics.

Clearly, the VP can be given the responsibility to recommend declassification with the president just blindly signing off as necessary.

 

[DaisyDay]

This may be semantics.

Clearly, the VP can be given the responsibility to recommend declassification with the president just blindly signing off as necessary.

He was given authority to classify and declassify, not simply recommend.

 

[JacksBratt]

If Trump can declassify to get himself out of trouble then Obama can declassify to get Biden out of trouble
I basically have no idea about the XO but maybe the section that says the president and vice president can classify is not relevant


t there is a whole other section discussing who can declassify.

Sec. 3.1. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order.

(b) Information shall be declassified or downgraded by:

(1) the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position and has original classification authority;

(2) the originator's current successor in function, if that individual has original classification authority;

(3) a supervisory official of either the originator or his or her successor in function, if the supervisory official has original classification authority;


Perhaps the president is a supervisory official for many people and the vice president is not

The President can "de" classify any document... while sitting in the office. Not after.

VP's cannot.

So, if Trump is guilty.... Biden and Pence are guilty of even more.

However, there is a two teir justice system. Pence and Biden will not be charged until DT gets back into office.

 

[DaisyDay]

The President can "de" classify any document... while sitting in the office. Not after.

VP's cannot.

Except when they can.

So, if Trump is guilty.... Biden and Pence are guilty of even more.

However, there is a two teir justice system. Pence and Biden will not be charged until DT gets back into office.

Guilty of what, exactly?

 

[Pastor Jay Randolph]

Ah, got it. You haven't read the indictment. My comment has nothing to do with the indictment or Donald's case in particular. I'm just addressing the misconception that some members here have about Vice President's ability to declassify.

As far as possession goes, the issue of intent is the determining factor of criminality.

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

www.law.cornell.edu

a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.​

There's no indication that then VP Biden knowingly removed the docs with the intent to retain them. The one's at Penn Biden Center were in an envelope marked "VP Personal" and it's likely that the were mistakenly packed by GSA in Jan 2017.

https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-2071.html

a)​

 Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.​

​

(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both;  and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.  As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.​

​

​

Willfully and unlawfully.​

OK, then how come Hillery has gotten away with it? And she is not the only one. To me that is one of the biggest problems with our government. They do not want the rules to be applied equally. It would be very simple to have term limits in congress, to have laws or rules apply equal to all. If you want to see the passport of our president, make it law they have to do this before they are sworn into office. Or if you want to know the finance of congress, require them to submit a yearly form showing where all the money comes from that goes into their account. We could require them to post this 3 to 6 month before an election. I am open for almost any requirements but let's have it in clear language that everyone can understand.

 

[SimplyMe]

OK, then how come Hillery has gotten away with it? And she is not the only one. To me that is one of the biggest problems with our government. They do not want the rules to be applied equally. It would be very simple to have term limits in congress, to have laws or rules apply equal to all. If you want to see the passport of our president, make it law they have to do this before they are sworn into office. Or if you want to know the finance of congress, require them to submit a yearly form showing where all the money comes from that goes into their account. We could require them to post this 3 to 6 month before an election. I am open for almost any requirements but let's have it in clear language that everyone can understand.

How has Hillary gotten away with what? To the best of my knowledge, Hillary never had Classified information after she left office, or Classified information she wasn't entitled to while she did serve as Secretary of State.

 

[Valletta]

How has Hillary gotten away with what? To the best of my knowledge, Hillary never had Classified information after she left office, or Classified information she wasn't entitled to while she did serve as Secretary of State.

Hillary kept an unauthorized and illegal private server on which she kept classified information. That is, what what was illegal was keeping classified information on the server since it was not secure. Hillary said she did not have classified documents on the server. In fact Hillary had classified data on her server. It appears that her lack of security allowed foreign countries to obtain classified information. Once a lawful subpoena was issued Hillary's staff destroyed lawfully requested data. When asked if she wiped her server before handing it over to the FBI Hillary said: "What? Like with a cloth or something?”

 

[SimplyMe]

Hillary kept an unauthorized and illegal private server on which she kept classified information. That is, what what was illegal was keeping classified information on the server since it was not secure. Hillary said she did not have classified documents on the server. In fact Hillary had classified data on her server. It appears that her lack of security allowed foreign countries to obtain classified information. Once a lawful subpoena was issued Hillary's staff destroyed lawfully requested data. When asked if she wiped her server before handing it over to the FBI Hillary said: "What? Like with a cloth or something?”

But that has nothing to do with the Trump case, which is how the person was using it. It was a pure whataboutism, trying to defend Trump by claiming Hillary did the same thing. It is also interesting how Jared and Ivanka used "illegal" email accounts when they worked in the White House -- while not a personal server, it was even worse since it was a public server -- yet somehow there is no interest among those that claim "But Hillary" to prosecute Ivanka and/or Jared for using an "illegal" email account for government business. It would also be interesting if they had Classified information on their server; and it is worth remembering that even just travel plans by top government officials is Classified (and some of the Classified information on Hillary's server had to do with Hillary's travel as Secretary of State).

 

[Valletta]

But that has nothing to do with the Trump case, which is how the person was using it. It was a pure whataboutism, trying to defend Trump by claiming Hillary did the same thing. It is also interesting how Jared and Ivanka used "illegal" email accounts when they worked in the White House -- while not a personal server, it was even worse since it was a public server -- yet somehow there is no interest among those that claim "But Hillary" to prosecute Ivanka and/or Jared for using an "illegal" email account for government business. It would also be interesting if they had Classified information on their server; and it is worth remembering that even just travel plans by top government officials is Classified (and some of the Classified information on Hillary's server had to do with Hillary's travel as Secretary of State).

It goes to due process. Are people being treated equally under the law? Without due process our Republic is at an end. You see, the government is trying to find anything they can to prevent Trump from being elected president. That is not the role of the government.

 

[SimplyMe]

It goes to due process. Are people being treated equally under the law? Without due process our Republic is at an end. You see, the government is trying to find anything they can to prevent Trump from being elected president. That is not the role of the government.

No, the government is investigating crimes, just like with Hillary. As for due process and bias, interesting that the reopening of Hillary's emails was leaked and confirmed by the FBI Director, just a couple of weeks before the 2016 election, after which Hillary lost 5 polling points and it likely cost her the election.

In the case of Trump, there is little argument that there was good cause for the Federal Government indicting Trump for holding onto Classified records -- the indictment basically shows Trump knew he had them and refusing to give them back, though we'll see what exonerating information Trump's lawyers can produce at the trial.

If I understand correctly, none of this will prevent Trump from running or, as his supporters claim they just support him more because of the "persecution," even winning the Presidency, even if he is in jail. So the narrative that it is to prevent Trump from being elected President is just nonsensical.

 

[A2SG]

So the narrative that it is to prevent Trump from being elected President is just nonsensical.

There's precedent, too. Boston Mayor and Massachusetts Governor James Michael Curley ran for his fourth non-consecutive term as Mayor of Boston while being indicted on federal felony charges. Twice (one for bribery, the other for mail fraud). He still won. He even went to jail for five months, and was still Mayor when he was released.

-- A2SG, so that argument doesn't hold water......