Can a Homosexual be Saved ?

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave
Talking about life in general does not change a persons heart, nor the condition of thier spiritual walk, the only thing it will do is make a friend.

Then, my friend, with all due respect - you have much to learn. (as do I...but I DO know for a fact that engaging one in conversation is an excellent starting point. Our Lord did this all the time.

Please show me any verse whatsoever where Christ talked with anyone at all, about "life in general"? Everything Christ talked about was to teach, about the ways of righteousness, He did not talk about anything about life in general, unless it pertained to ones salvation. What then according to you and what you believe, should we have preachers or not, or should we just trust God and not preach to people any more? Know you not that God has always preached and taught His message through humans? That is the way it has been done forever, yet i am hearing from you, that we should not preach to people, but only trust God to get them Saved, and that we should not preach at all, What doctrine is this? it is not Scriptural.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[savedandhappy1]

A) Can a heterosexual be saved?

The Bible says the only person who can't be saved is the person who blasphemies the Holy Spirit.

Matt. 12:31
31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

B) Why this preoccupation with the salvation status of others. Do you not trust God to take care of things in the way God chooses?

Mark 16:15
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Romans 10:13-15
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

2 Tim. 4:1-5
1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

it is a dream/vision that i had, concerning what we are discussing now, why i am preoccupied with Salvation of others.

The scriptures are very clear when they say to WORK OUT YOUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling.

And this we are definately suppose to do, i can't make anyone saved, nor can one be forced to be Saved. Therefore if i thief continues to steal, and i do as Scriptures teach us to do by reproving, and exhorting him, not to mention this verse also:

1Jn:5:16: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

i have did what the Lord requires of me, and have tried to turn that thief away from stealing, but i can't make him stop stealing, even though i have warned him about it that it is against God to do so, that he should cease from it, you see then i have not MADE him do anything, but i have not failed to teach him the Truth concerning that matter, he then does not have a cloak for his sin.

Jn:15:22: If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.

But he has to work out his own Salvation, i nor you can make him work it out, But woe to his who says nothing at all, nor does he warn him, for by failing to warn him, he will have to answer to God why he did not try to correct his brother in this matter, but ALLOWED him to continue to do those things. Jesus nor His Disciples did this. Are we not to be like Christ, Is He not an example for us to live, did He correct those who were sinning ? did He warn the evil doers ? Do you ?

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[savedandhappy1]

Let me tell you a story. There was a person named Mike who looked at porn all the time without ceasing, and he had two friends, Bill and Ted. Now both Bill and Ted know the Truth of the Bible, but Bill just wanted to be friends with Mike, and did not want to ruffle his feathers or make him mad. So Mike liked Bill and they were good friends. Now you see Ted on the other hand loved Mike and he wanted Mike to go to Heaven with Him, so Ted would always go up to Mike and thump him on the head with his Bible, teaching him about the Bible, in hopes that he would repent and cease from doing those things that are against the Bible. Ted would pray for Mike continually. Mike did not like Ted very much because Ted was a Bible thumper. Mike said that Ted was teaching hate and other things Mike would say about Ted.
JUDGEMENT DAY
Ted stands before God, and He says enter into my rest, though faithful and good servant, for you have done well in your life, even though people treated you bad.
Then Jesus looks over at Bill and asks " You knew it was wrong for Mike to look at porn, why did you not say anything to him? " Bill said nothing at all, for he knew why he did not say anything at all, because he did not want to upset his friend Mike. And Jesus said to Bill, because you said nothing, you condoned his sin and took part with his sins, go thou be with him.
Now in Hell as Mike is screaming in pain and in torment from satans demons continually striking him, he sees Bill coming into Hell and runs to him, and yells " i thought you were my friend " Bill replies, what do you mean?, as h now also starts to feel the pains of Hell. Mike yells " Why didn't you tell me, that looking at porn was adultery that looking at others having sex and the like, and me lusting was against God, and made me an adulterer, why didn't you tell me, you were my friend and did you not know this, why did you not tell me? Bill can't anwser now, his own screaming prevented him from ever hearing Mike again. Mike then screams " Only if i would have listened to Ted, who was only trying to help me, who was trying to get me to do the right thing, who was trying to prevent me from coming to this wretched place, he more then Bill was my true friend, i wish i would have listened to him.

Therefore if you Truly loved someone, and you know what they are doing, whatever that may be, will prevent them from going to Heaven, then if you loved that person you would say something, in hopes that they will repent and cease from doing those things, and join you in Heaven.

Therefore any man that has sex with another man and continues to do so, will not enter into Heaven, this is what Scriptures teach, therefore because i care for them and everyone, i will say something to them, in hopes they will not be like Mike above, that they will repent and cease from doing those things and save their souls from Hell. Now there are many people who are like Bill, know that it is bad yet say nothing at all, these if they Truly loved them, would in fact say something too. What kind of person would say nothing to prevent someone from going to Hell ????? Where is love then ?
If then you love, and desire others to go to Heaven, if you see them do things which will prevent them from going, you would say something to them, if you loved them. Leave it to this generation of the last days to say it is hate, the very opposite of what it acually is.
Many are called but only a few are chosen.
Many accept Christ as their Savior and Lord, but only a few will be planted in good ground.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave
Giving love and care to a person that is not Saved, will not save Him, for even devil worshippers love and care for their own. If then you Truly loved them and truly care for them, you would try to save their souls from hell fire, no matter how they feel back towards you.

I am left wondering if this is noble or if it is more of an ego trip. Your words seem to indicate that you are positive that your interpretation of Scripture is it...anybody who differs from you is wrong and hell-bound. (and honest wondering - I make no assumptions about you, brother)

your assumption is correct, that my words seem to indicate that i am positive that my interpretations are correct, but they are not my interpretations, they are given to me by Christ, and not from my own self. What i teach is what He has told me, what i know is because He has taught me, in whatsoever thing i have asked Him, He has told me, many things which i cannot repeat at this time. If you will not hear me, you will not hear Christ either, for what i teach He has taught me, they are not my teachings, nor do they come from my understanding and my knowledge. IF then He tells me this, then i tell you what He has told me, it is not mine, but His. What i teach is from Christ, not me. Therefore if you will not hear me, you will not hear Him, for the sheep know His voice, and follow Him.

Mt:10:14: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Jn:8:47: He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Those who hear me and believe, hear Him who told me these things, those who do not believe do not believe Him either.

Jn:10:27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Rom:10:14: How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? ( according to you, they only need to trust God, and do not need someone to preach to them, should we believe Scriptures or you ? )

i do not say any of this to anger you or upset you, it is not my intentions, but what i do, is teach the Truth, if you believe me, you believe Him who taught me, and that is Christ, many say it is satan, but satan does not teach to not obey satan, i preach against sin, that we should not obey satan, that we should not knowingly and willingly commit sin, satan is not divided against Himself, he would not tell people to obey God nor to obey the Bible, nor to do only righteousness, it is Jesus who has told me these thing, and lo, they are all in Scriptures, what i teach is nothing contrary to Scriptures, but all of Scriptures teach what i teach as well, for Scriptures and what i teach are ONE, they are the same, and from the same person called Jesus Christ. If then you do not believe me, you are not on the narrow and difficult path that leads to righteousness, Those who believe me, are those who are the few that are chosen out of the many that are called.
Do i think i am something ? God Forbid, i am nothing at all, but counted as dung, poor because i make myself poor, humble because i am not worthy of His love and mercies that He has given me, but He has chosen me from my birth to teach His Truths in the last days, to a generation that will mock me, and say all manner of evil against me, even now i am being falsely accused and satan is trying to put me in prison, and i have lost many jobs because of my teachings of Christ, but God has not forsaken me, and is with me and teaches me all things, and reveals to me all mysteries of His Kingdom. i am nothing, so much of a nothing that i do not feel worthy enough to even capitalize my " i " or my " my's " But when i talk about Him or He, He is worthy enough for me to capitalize, but me, i am nothing, but counted as filthy rags, because i am yet in the flesh on the earth. i am merely a messenger of His Truths, and that is what i teach.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[CShephard53]

Sorry, I don't argue with people who cannot make their case for calling something junk. I asked you to do that, you have refused.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave
And as i said before you can be friends with this person for a hundred years, and if all you did was talk about life in general, and they are not Saved, they will burn in Hell for all eternity, wandering why you being Saved, did not tell them these things, so that they may have repented and turn from their ways and not go to Hell.

I would never tell somebody they were hell-bound.
I preach the GOOD news.

lol, the good news is that they don't have to be Hell bound. Did Jesus teach that it is hard for a rich person to enter into Heaven ? Yes he did. Did Jesus and His Disciples teach who was Hell bound ? yes they did. Matters of fact most of the Bible teaches ways to avoid going to Hell, and teaches very little about Heaven. You say you would never tell somebody they are Hell-bound, but what if they were and didn't know it, would you then remain silent and say nothing at all?
Tell me if you knew an astroid was going to hit a certain city at a specific time, would you remain silent and trust God to inform them of this. Or would you open your mouth and try to warn them ?
What i am hearing from you is this, that if you knew someone that is Hell-bound you would say nothing at all to them, where is the love ? If you knew they were on a path to Hell, and say nothing at all to try to warn them, what kind of person does that make you ? You say just trust in God and say nothing at all, know you not that God works through people, that His message has always been given to us humans through humans. You see a child fixing to run across a road into on going traffic, do you say nothing and trust God to save the child, or do you open your mouth and say something to the child in an attempt to try to stop them from running across the road? You see someone going those things which will send him/her to hell, and this you say nothing at all, what kind of person does this, but one that fears what others think about them, these are they that go about to please everyone, as to not be disliked by anyone, these are people pleasers ( not saying that you are one of these, only that usually these are they that do these things )
i thank God, that John the Baptist opened his mouth, and that Jesus opened His mouth, and that the Disciples all opened their mouths, and the prophets of old opened their mouths as well, and i too, open my mouth to this endtime generation that is before my eyes. For it has always been people who have spread the Truth of God to other people, this is the way and is the Truth.
What then do you walk by the homeless, thinking to yourself, i will trust God to help that person, and help not that person.

James 2:15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

If a brother or sister is heading to Hell, and you say nothing to them to TRY to prevent it from happening, how have you profited them, how have you tried to help them? You haven't but have altogether LET them head that way, without so much as lifting a finger to help them. This is another reason God is about to pour out His wrath on this generation, for they go to prayer much over others, yet they do not lift a finger themselves to try to help that person that they are praying for.
There is a person who abuses drugs, and this person has a brother and a sister. The brother prays to God every night to help his drug abusing brother and trusts God that He will. The sister says to the drug abusing brother, anytime you need me, call me, and i will drop whatever it is i am doing and be there for you, she tells him, that she is willing to pay for his rehabilitation if he chooses to go there, she tells him that she is willing to do whatever it takes to help him through this problem and she prays for him every night. Which of the two has done the will of God ? i tell you the sister has, and not the other brother, for the other brother lifted not a finger to help, but passed the buck by praying only, and it will be through the sister and her efforts and her prayers that WILL help the drug abusing brother.
You want to help somebody that you are praying for, then do more then just pray for them, do something to actually help. Now if they refuse, nor will they accept your help, then pray only for them, but first do what you can yourself, and only when you can't help them, then take it to God, not the other way around, Don't take it to God when you are able to try to help first.
Consider this:

Luke 10:30: And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31: And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. ( Trusting in God to take care of him )
32: And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. ( Trusting in God to take care of him )
33: But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, ( First doing what he was able to do )
34: And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35: And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. ( then trusting in God to take care of him afterwards)
36: Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

So then instead of praying only and doing nothing, first do something then pray for them, Before you take a matter to God, make sure you have done everything you could have yourself first, then take what you can't do and give that to God.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave
Therefore any man that has sex with another man and continues to do so, will not enter into Heaven, this is what Scriptures teach,

That is not what the Scriptures teach - although you contend they do so.

The Scriptures do not teach this about faithful, monogamous gay relationship.

Bless you on your way.

Scriptures teach, not i, but Scriptures teach that men should have wives, and women should have husbands. anything other then this is sinful and not of God. You either believe Scriptures or you don't.

Scriptures say = Mk:10:7: For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

men say = For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife or husband.

Scriptures say = Lk:16:18: Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

men say = Whosoever putteth away his wife or husband, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her or him that is put away from her or his husband committeth adultery.

Scriptures say =Rom:7:2: For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

men say = For the woman which hath an husband or a wife is bound by the law to her husband or wife so long as he or she liveth; but if the husband or wife be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband or wife.

Scriptures say = 1Cor:7:3: Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

men say = Let the husband render unto the wife or his husband due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband or her wife.

Scriptures say = 1Cor:7:4: The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

men say = The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband or her wife: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife or his husband.

Scriptures say = Eph:5:23: For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

men say = For the husband is the head of the wife, unless the husband is married to his husband in that case you flip a coin and call it, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

.
Scriptures say = Eph:5:24: Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

men say = Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Unless they are married to another women, in that case flip a coin and call it to see who is subject to who in those relationships

Scriptures say = Eph:5:25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

men say = Husbands, love your wives or your husbands, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Scriptures say = 1Tm:3:2: A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

men say = A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife or the husband of one husband, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Scriptures say = Eph:5:22: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

men say = Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord, but if you are married to wife, then submit to no one at all.

Scriptures say = 1Cor:7:2: Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

men say = Nevertheless, to avoid fornication ( sex before marriage ), let every man have his own wife or his own husband, and let every woman have her own husband or her own wife.

Acts:5:29: Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

And Lo, i say also we aught to obey God and His Scriptures then to obey what men think and believe is the Truth. Scriptures is the Truth, what men say and believe is fallible and prone to errors and misinterpretations.

You say Scriptures don't teach this, but walk up to any child and ask them " who does the Bible say a husband is suppose to have? And see if they don't say a wife. What part of Scriptures teaches different then that, All of Scriptures, not only the New Testament, but the Old as well teach husbands have wives, NOT husband having husbands, nor wives having wives. Therefore you choose not to believe Scriptures but choose to believe your own thoughts and your own thinking. Scriptures does not teach it is OK for a man to have a husband, nor does it teach it is OK for a woman to have a wife, this is purely the doctrines of men and what they say and teach. God NEVER Taught that, but guess who does? satan and the men who believe him. Scriptures clearly teach a man is to have a wife, and a woman is to have a husband, YOU refuse to believe this, you refuse the Words of God, you do not believe them, you believe the doctrines of men, that say and teach that a man can have a wife or a husband, which is contrary to Scriptures.

2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

And here is a fable: that men can have husbands and women can have wives. this is not Scriptural but is point blank a fable, a lie, not the Truth, and is evil in the sight of God, i do not lie to you, i tell you the Truth, and because i tell you the Truth, you will hate me, and dislike me and say all manner of evil against me, but you know something, i already knew they would do this, for Scriptures teaches they will do this, that they will hate you and persecute you, so then i already know and expect it, for Scriptures does not lie, they are Truth, and those who believe them and live by them, will have eternal life in Heaven, the rest, well there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, because they choose not to believe the Truth when it is presented unto them, they refuse the Truth but would rather believe a lie, instead of beleiving Scriptures and what they teach, But Lo, i have told you the Truth, you will have no cloak for your actions concerning this matter, and those who condone such behavior even though they do not take part in their sins, but are condoning it, will stand before God on Judgment Day and have to answer why they chose to believe a lie and not the Truth when it was given to them.
Behold, i have told you this Truth, what you do with it is up to you.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[savedandhappy1]

Robert Sungenis responds

Does the Bible Condemn Homosexuality? An Interview with Dr. Reverend Cheri DiNovo. As the interview with Dr. DiNovo is conducted, Robert Sungenis will provide rebuttal to DiNovo’s arguments.

http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/dialogs/bible/bib_homo.htm

Review of Mel White’s What the Bible Says—and Doesn’t Say—about Homosexuality
Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
Seventh, White’s exegesis of 1 Cor 6.9 and 1 Tim 1.10 is, frankly, a whitewash over the real meaning of the text. He speaks of the ambiguity of malakos and arsenokoites. But he doesn’t mention that the authoritative lexicon of the NT, known as BDAG, does not speak so ambiguiously. This lexicon has about a 120-year history, over which time the scholars putting it together have been able to compile plenty of illustrations for the Greek of the NT. To be sure, there are places where the meaning is quite ambiguous. Because of their scholarly reputation, they do not hesitate to mention doubts about the meaning of a word if there are any. What do they say about these words then? For arsenokoites they note that it means “a man who engages in sexual activity w. a pers. of his own sex.” They add “pederast” as a second meaning, which would depend on the context (viz., if boys were in view rather than adult males). White is correct that this term should not be translated “homosexual” and that there is no ancient Greek word for “homosexual.” But that is a far cry from saying that there was no concept of homosexuality because the Greeks didn’t use just one word for it! That is to make a lexical-conceptual equation that was debunked nearly fifty years ago. To take one example: Eskimos don’t have a single word for snow. Does this mean that they don’t know what snow is? Rather, precisely because they have multiple words for snow indicates that they were well aware of it, even to understanding it in its various states. The arsenokoites was the active partner in male sex. The malakos was the passive partner in such sex acts. BDAG is unequivocal on both of these points. Incidentally, BDAG also notes that “Paul’s strictures against same-sex activity cannot be satisfactorily explained on the basis of alleged temple prostitution… or limited to contract w. boys for homoerotic service.” In a brief sentence, backed up by serious studies, BDAG has shown that White’s major premises (for both of these texts as well as for Rom 1.26-27) fall flat.
http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=4494

I didn't post all of the articles because of copywrite laws, but thought some might find them interesting. I haven't studied both them in depth, but am going to. I find it helps when you get two opposite views that give reasons for those views helps me get a better picture of the subject, and that it helps either strengthen my views or makes me do more research.

Good Day.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

DD

I hope you are having a good walk with Christ.

I rejoice that my own walk with Him is strong, faithful, and growing every day.

If I were a non-believer and encountered your posts, I would run in the opposite direction. Whether you intend it or not, your words come across as those of a Pharisee: arrogant, and smugly wrapped in the Law.