Can A Christian At Re-birth Be "Still Born?"

[Mercy Shown]

I have heard it said by some Christians that salvation is simply belief on Jesus and I would agree with that, but can I claim true belief on Jesus and of zero tangible changes to my life?

Jesus did not say to the woman caught in adultery, "Go and sin as much as you desire." Now, we cannot stop sinning as a practice without the indwelling of Christ through the Spirit but can we go on sinning as a practice with the indwelling of Christ through the spirit.

If our faith does not produce tangible changes for the better in our lives, is it even real. Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." So can one simply "believe" with no change in their lives and be saved?

 

[d taylor]

I have heard it said by some Christians that salvation is simply belief on Jesus and I would agree with that, but can I claim true belief on Jesus and of zero tangible changes to my life?

Jesus did not say to the woman caught in adultery, "Go and sin as much as you desire." Now, we cannot stop sinning as a practice without the indwelling of Christ through the Spirit but can we go on sinning as a practice with the indwelling of Christ through the spirit.

If our faith does not produce tangible changes for the better in our lives, is it even real. Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." So can one simply "believe" with no change in their lives and be saved?

Jesus was not addressing to the woman caught in adultery what she must do to receive Eternal Life.

He Jesus was addressing that to the woman at the well.

What is the will of The Father
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I have heard it said by some Christians that salvation is simply belief on Jesus and I would agree with that, but can I claim true belief on Jesus and of zero tangible changes to my life?

Jesus did not say to the woman caught in adultery, "Go and sin as much as you desire." Now, we cannot stop sinning as a practice without the indwelling of Christ through the Spirit but can we go on sinning as a practice with the indwelling of Christ through the spirit.

If our faith does not produce tangible changes for the better in our lives, is it even real. Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." So can one simply "believe" with no change in their lives and be saved?

When one " believes " in Jesus Christ of Nazareth He makes His Home in them. This is the indwelling of His Holy Spirit and when regeneration occurs. This is displayed by repentance , the changing of one's mind to turn away from sin. Our genuine repentance is based solely on our love for Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The fruits of His Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Blessings.

 

[RDKirk]

I have heard it said by some Christians that salvation is simply belief on Jesus and I would agree with that, but can I claim true belief on Jesus and of zero tangible changes to my life?

Jesus did not say to the woman caught in adultery, "Go and sin as much as you desire." Now, we cannot stop sinning as a practice without the indwelling of Christ through the Spirit but can we go on sinning as a practice with the indwelling of Christ through the spirit.

If our faith does not produce tangible changes for the better in our lives, is it even real. Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." So can one simply "believe" with no change in their lives and be saved?

Jesus certainly calls us to action (even if it's only action within ourselves). He certainly commands, "Take up your cross and follow Me," as well as other things.

It's an old analogy:

If you really believe that a fire alarm signals a fire, then what do you do if you're in a movie theater and the fire alarm goes off? If you take no action...you don't really believe a fire alarm signals a fire.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I have heard it said by some Christians that salvation is simply belief on Jesus and I would agree with that, but can I claim true belief on Jesus and of zero tangible changes to my life?

Jesus did not say to the woman caught in adultery, "Go and sin as much as you desire." Now, we cannot stop sinning as a practice without the indwelling of Christ through the Spirit but can we go on sinning as a practice with the indwelling of Christ through the spirit.

If our faith does not produce tangible changes for the better in our lives, is it even real. Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." So can one simply "believe" with no change in their lives and be saved?

Babies don't do rocket science. The bible talks about a new life and spiritual maturity for a reason.

Keep working at it with God, and grow together with Him.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Jesus was not addressing to the woman caught in adultery what she must do to receive Eternal Life.

He Jesus was addressing that to the woman at the well.

What is the will of The Father
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Certainly, that was the will of the Father for Jesus but is it the will of the Father for us to remain in the practice of sin? Paul says, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

It is not that they forfeit the inheritance because of these sins, but it is that they do these sins because they have forfeited the inheritance already. I think that we are saved when we believe on Christ but the mark of our true belief is written for all to see in the deeds and actions that flow from our belief.

Simply self-identifying as a believer with no change in our lives puts the lie to our "belief."

 

[d taylor]

Certainly, that was the will of the Father for Jesus but is it the will of the Father for us to remain in the practice of sin? Paul says, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

It is not that they forfeit the inheritance because of these sins, but it is that they do these sins because they have forfeited the inheritance already. I think that we are saved when we believe on Christ but the mark of our true belief is written for all to see in the deeds and actions that flow from our belief.

Simply self-identifying as a believer with no change in our lives puts the lie to our "belief."

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A popular word used today used with belief is true, but can you show me where belief in The Bible uses true belief or true believer to identify a born again child of God.

The Bible calls believers simply believers, as far as i know i see no use of added words like true, genuine, etc.. add to belief or believer in The Bible.

 

[Mercy Shown]

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A popular word used today used with belief is true, but can you show me where belief in The Bible uses true belief or true believer to identify a born again child of God.

The Bible calls believers simply believers, as far as i know i see no use of added words like true, genuine, etc.. add to belief or believer in The Bible.

No, there is no such modifier in the bible but there are other clues such as "For every tree is known by his own fruit." "It is clear who are the children of God and who are the children of the devil by this—anyone who does not act righteously or love his brother is not of God." 1 John 3:10

I feel that Christ illustrated this the best when He related this parable.

“What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’

“‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

“Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.

“Which of the two did what his father wanted?”

“The first,” they answered.

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."

Christ's point seems to be that actions speak louder than words. It is by our actions that the world knows we are Christians. We are going to be salt and light if we abide in Christ.

 

[d taylor]

No, there is no such modifier in the bible but there are other clues such as "For every tree is known by his own fruit." "It is clear who are the children of God and who are the children of the devil by this—anyone who does not act righteously or love his brother is not of God." 1 John 3:10

I feel that Christ illustrated this the best when He related this parable.

“What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’

“‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

“Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.

“Which of the two did what his father wanted?”

“The first,” they answered.

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."

Christ's point seems to be that actions speak louder than words. It is by our actions that the world knows we are Christians. We are going to be salt and light if we abide in Christ.

The big question though is by your threads tittle, you believe that a person can believe in Jesus, but God will not give that person God's free gift of Eternal Life so the person who believed in Jesus never becomes a born again child of God.

You select a verse out of a book to make a point. But when the whole chapter is looked at it can be seen that John is addressing believers and is warning believers. False believers is not the subject of 1John 3.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Little children is John's way of addressing this group of believers. John is saying believers ( little children) who sin are of the devil. So John acknowledges that there are some believers who are caught up in sin and he is writing to say that a believer who us caught up in sin is of the devil. That is they are not emulating their Father (God/Jesus) but instead they are acting like they are children of the devil.

 

[Mercy Shown]

The big question though is by your threads tittle, you believe that a person can believe in Jesus, but God will not give that person God's free gift of Eternal Life so the person who believed in Jesus never becomes a born again child of God.

I see where the communication is breaking down. I should have made it more clear. My apologies. A person who believes on Jesus is saved. That salvation will bring about change in their lives just as yeast changes bread dough. Salvation is what God does for us and in us, not what we do but what He does.

I am sure you would agree that no one who continues practicing sin is saved.

You select a verse out of a book to make a point. But when the whole chapter is looked at it can be seen that John is addressing believers and is warning believers. False believers is not the subject of 1John 3.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Little children is John's way of addressing this group of believers. John is saying believers ( little children) who sin are of the devil. So John acknowledges that there are some believers who are caught up in sin and he is writing to say that a believer who us caught up in sin is of the devil. That is they are not emulating their Father (God/Jesus) but instead they are acting like they are children of the devil.

I see your point, yes, he is addressing believers. I read the chapter as a warning he is giving to his flock about outside influences coming into the church and a sure fire way to discern false teachers and false doctrine. Historically John battled Gnostics and Judaizers who wanted to take control of the Church. So this could have been a teaching on how to recognize them.

 

[d taylor]

I see where the communication is breaking down. I should have made it more clear. My apologies. A person who believes on Jesus is saved. That salvation will bring about change in their lives just as yeast changes bread dough. Salvation is what God does for us and in us, not what we do but what He does.

I am sure you would agree that no one who continues practicing sin is saved.

I see your point, yes, he is addressing believers. I read the chapter as a warning he is giving to his flock about outside influences coming into the church and a sure fire way to discern false teachers and false doctrine. Historically John battled Gnostics and Judaizers who wanted to take control of the Church. So this could have been a teaching on how to recognize them.

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No i do not agree, sin is not a factor in salvation

What is the hangup on sin and eternal life salvation. Can you show any area of The Bible that states a person's eternal life salvation depends on the amount of sin they have in their life past, present or future.

Jesus came and took away the sin of the world, again sin in a persons life is not a condition or issue to deal with to receive Eternal Life salvation.

I will repeat this again the only condition God has given to receive His free gift of eternal Life salvation is belief in Jesus.

Sin in a persons (born again child of God) life is in relation to how they, the born again child of God has a relationship with their Father God. A born again child of God who is engulfed in a sin life style, is living a life out of fellowship with God. They do not become an un-born again child of God. They may experience harsh discipline from God, even the lost of their earthly life. Or God may just let the sin in their life run its course and what ever problems brought on by sin, God will let that sin take its tole on the born again sinner's life

 

[d taylor]

Here is an illustration

...Lady or man who is not a believer (agnostic or person who just has no time for God) is driving along a highway they happen to tune into a radio station. Where a free grace Bible teacher is teaching a lesson on what a person must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. He is teaching from The Gospel of John.

...The lady or man happens to become interested in what the free grace teacher is saying. They leave the radio tuned to this person and what they are teaching. While he is teaching they become convinced what he is teaching is true and that Eternal Life salvation is by belief/faith in Jesus. So while driving down the road they believe in Jesus (for Eternal Life), just as the teacher said that is how to receive Eternal Life.

...Now the program comes to an end and they turn the radio off or to another station (country music), they are not told to love God, repent from their sins, be baptized, become obedient to God, etc.. About 30 to 45 minutes later, the lady or man is involved in a fatal wreck where they lose their life immediately. by the time anyone arrives to the wreck they are deceased.

...So did this person receive Eternal Life and become a born again child of God.

 

[friend of]

...So did this person receive Eternal Life and become a born again child of God

Sporadic conversions are often false. I'd wonder if the seed of God's word would have had time enough to germinate

 

[d taylor]

Sporadic conversions are often false. I'd wonder if the seed of God's word would have had time enough to germinate

So this person did not have enough works to be saved, because from your reply, belief in Jesus is not enough. Or is not the way a person receives Eternal Life.

 

[Mercy Shown]

_​

No i do not agree, sin is not a factor in salvation

It is a lagging indicator. I guess Hebrews puts it best. "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left" It is not that we can earn salvation by stopping sin in our lives, it is that when we are saved sin will begin dying in our lives. PTL!

What is the hangup on sin and eternal life salvation. Can you show any area of The Bible that states a person's eternal life salvation depends on the amount of sin they have in their life past, present or future.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Jesus came and took away the sin of the world, again sin in a persons life is not a condition or issue to deal with to receive Eternal Life salvation.

Thank God. If it were, who could stand. Those that accept Gods salvation will stop practicing sin, a thing they could never have done unless they were saved.
1 John 3:6
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

I will repeat this again the only condition God has given to receive His free gift of eternal Life salvation is belief in Jesus.

PTL! Thank God and that salvation has dire consequences to sin in one's life.

Sin in a persons (born again child of God) life is in relation to how they, the born again child of God has a relationship with their Father God. A born again child of God who is engulfed in a sin life style, is living a life out of fellowship with God. They do not become an un-born again child of God. They may experience harsh discipline from God, even the lost of their earthly life. Or God may just let the sin in their life run its course and what ever problems brought on by sin, God will let that sin take its tole on the born again sinner's life

A born again person does not go on practicing sin as the bible tells us.

 

[Mercy Shown]

So this person did not have enough works to be saved, because from your reply, belief in Jesus is not enough. Or is not the way a person receives Eternal Life.

I don't think that is what was being said. How do you define belief in Jesus. The demons believed and trembled but we would all agree that they will not be saved by it. So we must define our terms. When you say belief in Jesus, what do you mean?

 

[d taylor]

It is a lagging indicator. I guess Hebrews puts it best. "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left" It is not that we can earn salvation by stopping sin in our lives, it is that when we are saved sin will begin dying in our lives. PTL!

Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Thank God. If it were, who could stand. Those that accept Gods salvation will stop practicing sin, a thing they could never have done unless they were saved.
1 John 3:6
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.



PTL! Thank God and that salvation has dire consequences to sin in one's life.

A born again person does not go on practicing sin as the bible tells us.

Ok you have your beliefs. i will end my reply's and let you have your beliefs.

 

[d taylor]

I don't think that is what was being said. How do you define belief in Jesus. The demons believed and trembled but we would all agree that they will not be saved by it. So we must define our terms. When you say belief in Jesus, what do you mean?

Salvation was never for demons only for humans who are from Adam. Demons are the seed of fallen angels.

 

[d taylor]

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Obviously, if a person can not answer yes ( to the above illustration i posted), this person became a born again child of God at the moment of their belief in Jesus. Then they must believe it takes more than faith in Jesus to become a born again child of God. Or that belief in Jesus is not the way a person becomes a born again child of God.

 

[Mercy Shown]

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Obviously, if a person can not answer yes ( to the above illustration i posted), this person became a born again child of God at the moment of their belief in Jesus. Then they must believe it takes more than faith in Jesus to become a born again child of God. Or that belief in Jesus is not the way a person becomes a born again child of God.

It takes more than faith since we can't even have faith until we are born again. Re-birth has nothing to do with our faith, it is by the will of God.