Can a child molester be saved?

SonOfZion · Jul 10, 2018

Read them their last rites and let them find out, that's the penalty and it has not changed.

As it is the only Deterrence Ecclesiastes 8:11

In the case of a woman who is raped, and her cries for help were not heard, only the man is put to death. Deuteronomy 22:25

Incomprehensible that it would be less for a child that is raped.

DM25 · Jul 10, 2018

Of course. I don't know why this question is asked knowing Jesus can save the most vile and biggest criminals. Only he can do it, no one else. Sure we can argue that most child molesters are so far off that they will never even seek Jesus. BUT it is most definitely possible because that's how great God's power is. I have seen testimonies of rapists, serial killers, child molesters, satanists, etc. all be being saved and it is truly amazing when they become a new creation in Christ.

Arthur B Via · Jul 11, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
Arthur B Via, I didn't see where you answered the questions.

When we believe? We repent. What is repentance? When God wrote repent, like now, it means to -turn from sin-. NOT to be sinless. That would be deity and that's not possible. Repent is to lament... To GRIEVE over our sins and this is "the fight" we are told of. By hating, or lamenting over our sins we are confirming our eternal position with Christ in our longing to be Christ like. As we mature we increase the distance between our sin and our yearning to be sin free and at death, or the Rapture, we get a final cleansing in the sin free Blood of Jesus... Read God's Word and see. God bless you all...

SpiritPsalmist · Jul 11, 2018

BNR32FAN said:
Yes my point was that turning themselves in to the governing authorities is not required for salvation.

What I initially stated was, they must repent and turn from their wicked ways. THEN, I said they should also turn themselves in. The "also" was a seperate sentense from the first sentence and non inclusive for salvation.

There are many scriptures though that tell us what we should do when we have wronged someone. I don't think it's an "in order to be saved" but is still quite important in turning away from one's wicked ways. Refusing (not to be confused with you no longer have contact with them and are unable to ask for forgiveness) to do as scripture instructs is sin also. (James 4:17) If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them. And in the event that the harm done was a "crime" such as molestation, I believe they should turn themselves in.

I found this site fairly informative on the subject of restitution to those whom we have harmed: https://www.gotquestions.org/restitution-Bible.html

SpiritPsalmist · Jul 11, 2018

needhugs said:
i know the one who did ME wrong, is now a 'Christian' ...he was just a successful jerk, still is... where as I have always paid a horrible price for what happened to me as a child...

he doesn't appear to have a millstone around his neck, nor is he drowning.... me? if i could have just drowned? that would have been a mercy.

fat wee robin · Jul 11, 2018

ubicaritas said:
You are misreading that quote then. When Jesus speaks of "little ones", he's talking about his rank and file disciples, not children. He's warning his disciples about causing scandal that leads to loss of faith. We should seek to avoid spiritual abuse, the sort of thing that was bread and butter for the religion of his pharisaical opponents.

Jesus frequently uses hyperbole in his speech, as well. That means that he might not mean that literally, but he's expressing the intensity of how we should view scandalizing a persons faith.

Hurting a child is a sin but it's not unforgivable.

I think smacking a child is biblical for discipline , raping them is beyond any other sin
as it is 'murder' .

fat wee robin · Jul 11, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
And you are kind of acting like those living a lifestyle of murder pedophilia, whatever, at the time of death... as long as they say they have faith they are still on the way to heaven.

But yeah some do believe that nonsense.

And they will find themselves tied to a rock, under deep dark water , helpless like their victims were .

fat wee robin · Jul 11, 2018

ubicaritas said:
You aren't reading the passage with critical tools. You're reading it just on a surface level and assuming the ideas are automatically connected, as if it were a newspaper. The Gospels are not necessarily in a neat thematic ordering, but can often jump around (and in the original Greek there aren't even spaces between words, and the chapter markings are mostly arbitrary, for instance, they do not appear until centuries later). The second passage containing this verse (verse 6) is generalized advice, it is probably not even connected to the story of Jesus blessing children. It's in a separate paragraph, so this is a clue to the reader.

Lets look at this verse from the NIV:

6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble,

"Little ones" are not necessarily just children, but any believer, as more modern translations often make clear. This verse is a prologue of sorts to the rest of the paragraph, which is about scandal in general.

Funny if He wanted to say 'believers ',He could have, since the meaning would be very clear . Jesus only used parables when He wanted to reach those who had 'Inside knowledge ' (of the Spirit , and biblical ),and spoke simply and clearly to those who were learning for the first time .
So when He said 'children ', that is what He meant to say .

JojoM · Jul 11, 2018

It is a pretty serious offence obviously and I think it takes a really hard heart and conscience to even think of doing it. And I think someone who commits such a crime is not normal and is probably already psychologically damaged from their own childhood leading to a deadly stone heart. I think that kind of heart / conscience will find repentance a very very remote idea. And because of that salvation for these kinds of offenders is also a very very remote thing.

But if somehow his very proud heart manages to arrive to a very very low position, it will be a state of humiity that none of the normal people can even fathom.

You see, the greater your sin is, the greater humility you’ll be brought down to in front of the law. After all, Jesus came to earth not for the righteous but for the sinners.

If then he seeks God’s mercy instead of maybe killing himself (after realising how dreadful he is), then he has come a really long way and it is God’s decision to reveal the cross to him. I don’t think this will happen outside a prison cell though. Because if his heart is truly softened then the first thing his conscience will do if not killing himself will be to confess his sins to the authorities so he will be taken to prison and avoid being a danger to another child.

Tomb523 · Jul 11, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
You completely skipped the part of scripture that tells what the actual blasphemy was, and moved directly to Jesus explaining the consequences? Then you cite this supposesdly reasoned out version.

You have to admit, it doesn't look good from where I sit, and for the reasons I mention.

Here is the left out part that says just what the blasphemy of the Holy spirit is:

24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, y“It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.”

So not sure how you get all you wrote out of an accusation the Pharisees made, that the Holy spirit was the devil/Beelzebub, or the actual blasphemy, a lack of reverence for the Holy Spirit in this case.

Now don't get me wrong, there may be something to what you say but it's not the actual Blasphemy of the holy spirit....not that I can see.

While the Pharisees blasphemed the Holy Spirit by calling it Satan, I don't believe that is the only way. In other words, I take their accusations to be a denial of the Holy Spirit in general, doesn't matter what name they use or in what circumstances its done. To say it's Satan or it doesn't exist, in either case it is attributing evil qualities to it or denying its existence to begin with.

So what does it take to lead someone away from God? If they are a true believer, they must have the Holy Spirit dwelling within. To be able to "cast out" that HS, the person would need to be convinced it is either evil or really doesn't exist and the person who convinced them of this would have blasphemed the Holy Spirit (and also perhaps the person who was led away).

Tomb523 · Jul 11, 2018

SpiritRehab said:
Agreed.
Messiah took on all the Sins of the World,
so it is up to Him, case by case,
who He wants to save,
but from what He has revealed
it's seems next to impossible.
An unforgivable sin.

Still,
I see the Word as the Constitution
and Messiah as the Supreme Court Judge.
There may be a child who was brutally hurt
and while he was still hurting, 20 years later,
he hurt another child.
Then 30 years later,
he hears the Gospel,
repents & begs forgiveness
in Messiah.

Messiah is Free to Save him, if He wants.

There may be another reprobate,
who continues to hurt children
throughout his life
and at the end of his life
out of fear
begs forgiveness in Messiah.
>I< doubt Messiah will forgive him;
but it is still >Messiah's< right.

The important thing is,
not who cannot be forgiven,
but who has the guarantee of forgiveness:
those who have not committed any of the 3 unforgivable sins
nor the 4 near? unforgivable sins
and have heard, repented, confessed, begged & believed in Messiah
until death.

Which is 99.9999% of those who are Born Again;
perhaps even 100%.

It's upto Messiah in the end.
Though I will never accept a Child Molester into my Fellowship
no matter how much he claims to believe, etc.
To protect fellowship and myself
from all kinds of evil plots he could be planning.

Here's the thing, Roman's 10 says in part: "12For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on Him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14How then can they call on the One they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach?

It is the Holy Spirit that convicts. If someone hears the call and answers, then they are convicted. If someone sincerely and truthfully confesses Jesus as Lord and repents they are save - period. One could argue that the triune God makes His decision if they are going to save someone by causing the Holy Spirit to convict them, but then that would violate free will. No, if someone hears the word and hears the call and they answer it (yes, Jesus I want your salvation) it is then the holy spirit enters and Justifies them to the Father through Jesus and the process of sanctification begins.

Jesus made the decision to save everyone when He came to earth.
Luke 5:31Jesus answered, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Same in Mark 2:17On hearing this, Jesus told them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

In Jesus, all sins except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit are forgivable and if you call on His name, you shall be forgiven.

FatalHeart · Jul 11, 2018

Ay, Paul talks about in Chapter 2 of Romans the judgment still to come on all flesh. When Jesus says this, he isn't wrong, but neither does it negate salvation. The Bible is full of judgment apart from condemnation and even in Revelations it talks about a judgment before the book of life is opened, so. Sure, a child molester is saved and everyone can be forgiven, but there will still be distress for distress and reward for character; you will reap what you sow.

Kenny'sID · Jul 11, 2018

Arthur B Via said:
When we believe? We repent. What is repentance? When God wrote repent, like now, it means to -turn from sin-. NOT to be sinless. That would be deity and that's not possible. Repent is to lament... To GRIEVE over our sins and this is "the fight" we are told of. By hating, or lamenting over our sins we are confirming our eternal position with Christ in our longing to be Christ like. As we mature we increase the distance between our sin and our yearning to be sin free and at death, or the Rapture, we get a final cleansing in the sin free Blood of Jesus... Read God's Word and see. God bless you all...

OK, suit yourself.

Kenny'sID · Jul 11, 2018

fat wee robin said:
And they will find themselves tied to a rock, under deep dark water , helpless like their victims were .

Sounds fitting, and may be the best case scenario for them.

Kenny'sID · Jul 11, 2018

Tomb523 said:
While the Pharisees blasphemed the Holy Spirit by calling it Satan, I don't believe that is the only way. In other words, I take their accusations to be a denial of the Holy Spirit in general, doesn't matter what name they use or in what circumstances its done. To say it's Satan or it doesn't exist, in either case it is attributing evil qualities to it or denying its existence to begin with.

So what does it take to lead someone away from God? If they are a true believer, they must have the Holy Spirit dwelling within. To be able to "cast out" that HS, the person would need to be convinced it is either evil or really doesn't exist and the person who convinced them of this would have blasphemed the Holy Spirit (and also perhaps the person who was led away).

I guess I see it as such a serious sin it should not be messed with or pulled away from what it is basically, yet we see that happen all the time with this particular scripture, when really, it shouldn't happen with any simply stated thing in the bible. Some things are often interpreted so far out of proportion, they no longer resemble anything close to what they should, or the simple truth they once did, and that bothers me.

Some poor newb asks what the unforgivable sin is and you give them that, something they can barely understand, if at all, and now they're thinking "there is no way I can understand this bible", I mean how is anyone going to get your interpretation unless it's taught to them? It was simple, and now it is not. Making them throw up their arms, and just not read, or be dependent on men for the "deeper truths" that are so often nothing more than something they are adding to scripture, something we are told to be very careful of.

At least that's my take.

FatalHeart · Jul 11, 2018

There is no casting out of the Holy Spirit. "To deceive even the elect, if that were possible." -Matthew 24:24. But like with Samson, God can work powerfully in an individual, whether or not they know Him. "Did we not do many miracles in your name?" -Matthew 7:22. It's important not to confuse God's involvement in your life with salvation. That being said, it does say, "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." - 1 Corinthians 6:10. So those that live in those things are not in a good place. Rape, akin to murder, does not show the love of your brother you would expect in someone who knows God. Cain is used as an example of the unsaved, for that reason. Although I do not think the OP was meant for only strong instances as it says "cause to sin," which is a very easy thing to do with children. It kind of more implies you really need to watch your spiritual life. But this condemning of a sinner, the very next verse in Corinthians from this one says, "But that is what some of you were." So it is implied that there is hope for anyone who has made such life choices. There is judgment for sins. It's not like people are getting away with their behaviors, that's not why Jesus died. God is Just. But just because you think it's more appropriate to condemn them does not mean that's what God thinks. He may be very far from the mind you have, though your intention is only righteousness; "you do not know what manner of spirit you are of."

Gell · Jul 11, 2018

John 7:24
In truth and love with gentleness and respect.

TuxAme · Jul 11, 2018

There's only one sin that won't be forgiven.

Tutorman · Jul 11, 2018

sunshineforJesus said:
In Gods eyes one sin is no worse than another so Yes of course a child molester can be saved.

Not quite. The sin of Blaspheming the Holy Sprint is the unforgivable sin, so not all sin is the same in God's eyes

Numbers In The Sky · Jul 11, 2018

ubicaritas said:
You are misreading that quote then. When Jesus speaks of "little ones", he's talking about his rank and file disciples, not children. He's warning his disciples about causing scandal that leads to loss of faith.

How do you know for sure unless the Bible clearly states it? Another question: At what age can a person offend someone younger or older?

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