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Can a Calvinist preach to non-believers "Jesus died for your sins!"???

Discussion in 'Ask a Calvinist' started by Ribosome, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Definitely non calvinists always confuse the us, you in scripture.
    for example v8, they will include all of humanity when thie promises in this chapter is only for those who have had this done for them,

    " the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us."

    Romans 5

    Not all of God's enemies were reconciled to Christ by the death of His Son, since obviously not all are saved by His life. The 'we were enemies ' is referring to those who have been justified by faith in Jesus.

    When they corporately include all humans, they misrepresent what the Holy Spirit actually teaches.
     
  2. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Galatians 1 New King James Version (NKJV)
    Read here that Jesus gave Himself for our sins, for the purpose of delivering US from this present evil age. And this is God's will.
    AND Paul wrote this To the Churches of Galatia, not written to all men of the world.
     
  3. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    As a Calvinist, I feel completely justified in sharing the good news with an unbeliever and then pleading with them to believe it. I present the gospel and then call for obedience to it (faith).

    I can tell anyone that the offer is for them, because in a sense it is; although, I know that the only ones who will accept it are chosen by God before the foundation of the earth.

    The story of the man sowing seeds is a help in looking at this question (Matthew 13). He scattered seeds everywhere!!! No farmer would sow seeds like this, but God does.
     
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  4. twin1954

    twin1954 Baptist by the Bible

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    The only problem with that is that God never offers salvation to anyone He gives it to whom He chooses.

    Yes we are called to preach to everyone at every opportunity that God gives us and we do so not so much because we are commanded to but because we desire with all our hearts for folks to know Christ and His salvation.

    While I can call all men to believe in Christ I cannot tell them that God offers them salvation. What I can tell them is that Christ has lived and died in the place of sinners and that salvation is theirs if they can believe.
     
  5. bfdd6988

    bfdd6988 Newbie Supporter

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    I say yes because if the person you're witnessing to is Elect, then you've make a true statement. If non-Elect, it's a moot statement. The consequences are hardly dire by doing so. The Elect will still get saved and the non-Elect never will.
     
  6. BryanW92

    BryanW92 Hey look, it's a squirrel!

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    Christ's work was sufficient for all and efficient for some.
     
  7. striger

    striger Guest

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    No becsuse predestination includes two parts, namely, election and reprobation, the predetermination of both the good and the wicked to their final end, and to certain proximate ends which are instrumental in the realization of their final destiny.
     
  8. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    Personally, I've always found it annoying when the Arminian preacher say's "Jesus died for your sins" because they are referring to a substitutionary atonement, a definite one, which they believe not. For how do they know that Christ died for "my" sins? The truth is that they don't. An unlimited general atonement has not a place for substitutionary atonement, there are only mere "possibilities" (nothing definite) which hinge not on divine initiative, but on an assumed autonomous initiative.

    As for evangelical Calvinists, I'd read sermons of C.H. Spurgeon, George Whitefield, or the wisdom of the late great Presbyterian evangelist A.T. Pierson, with regards to your question.
     
  9. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Will the person who believes upon the Lord then know that Christ died for them?

    I ask this because I have been asked at times if I believe Jesus died for me?



    Now I think there may be a difference between believe upon the Lord, which I would suppose means to cast oneself upon the Lord. and the mental act of believing Jesus died for me. Or am I still confused? See I think theology (any theology) when presented at the wrong time causes a problem. I know at least once or twice I have prayed "get me out of this theology"
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  10. twin1954

    twin1954 Baptist by the Bible

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    As a staunch believer and proclaimer of the five points I tell sinners that the Lord Jesus died and actually saved some people called sinners. I tell them that if they can cast their souls on Him alone by faith in His accomplished work that they are saved. I also tell them the truth about themselves and the truth about God.
     
  11. bsd058

    bsd058 Sola and Tota Scripturist

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    James White fan? Just wondering...:)
     
  12. Skala

    Skala I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him

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    ;)
     
  13. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    I'd like to expound on my previous comment if nobody minds. Any Christian preacher, preaching to Christians and non, can rightfully proclaim "Jesus died for your sins" because it is true for Christians in the audience and we all need constant reminders. However, it's still annoying to hear from a non-Calvinist preacher because a Calvinist listener knows they do not mean it in the same way. The whole notion of the Son dying for those whom the Father knew from eternity, (in Arminian terms) would never choose Him, is preposterous. And the questions that follows, who and what maketh the difference between the two? So non-biblical and inconsistent with Scripture the foolish notion is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  14. Don Maurer

    Don Maurer ^Oh well^

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    Quite a forthright statement. I am curious where you are now, do you consider yourself to previously be a Calvinist?

    Would you see the author of your article as asking one question or two? I would see it as two separate questions. The first question concerns the nature of the cross work of Christ (or Atonement). The 2nd question concerns evangelism.

    Reformed people and non-Calvinists see the relationship between these two questions in very different ways. The non-Calvinist sees the nature of the atonement and its relationship to evangelism as one where a person cannot fairly preach the atonement to an unbeliever in a fair and honest way. I would point out that this does not actually take Arminians or many non-Calvinists off the hook. They believe God looks into the future and can see with foreknowledge who is going to believe, and chooses them for salvation. The same question could be asked of them. Why did God have them preach to people who would reject the gospel? In fact, the added question could be asked, why did Christ die for them, knowing that they would never accept the Gospel? Is that somehow more loving? It would be like sitting a burger and fries across the room from a person with no legs or arms who cannot go get it and eat it. In the end, it is of no real value. So what I am saying, is we really both have to answer that same question.

    If I might ask another question...
    Why do you think God wants us to proclaim the Gospel to those who will never believe? I think the question gets down to the Glory of God. The glory of God should be manifest to both believer and unbeliever. Is that not what Romans 9 talks about? One pot is made for glory, and one for destruction.

    Neither reformed, or non-Calvinists really know who will believe, we both just proclaim the Gospel, and we really are both in the same boat.

    : ), there is actually some good theology in your statements. It is a common misunderstanding of Reformed theology that when Christ died, his death was of equal value as the number of elect. That is a horrible understanding of Reformed theology. It is not like if Christ wanted to save one more person, that he would have to suffer just a little more. His death was of infinite value, but all that value was intended to save the elect. It is not like Christ were trying to save the non-elect and his death was just insufficient, it just was not enough. Then in his high priestly ministry (like in Herbrews) his atoning blood is sprinkled upon the heavenly altar, and it does nothing for some, and saves others. No, it saves all for whom it was shed. In any case, I appreciate your understanding of Reformed theology in your statement above.

    To answer your question... I doubt I would say all that you wrote, even though it seem good theology. I probably would take the angle that faith is the only criteria for justification. I am not sure that I would begin with the nature of the atonement during evangelism.
     
  15. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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    Could an Arminian or non-Calvinist preach,

    "Christ died for all of the sins you committed but you might still end up in hell if you decide not to believe He died for you!"

    That's a pretty heinous doctrine if you ask me.
     
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