Can a born-again Christian have a demon?

[Francis Drake]

We are taught and I believe scripture proves out that born again believers can not be possessed. We can carry a demon, in fact will be attacked, demons can project into our thoughts but not possess. Possession is that we physically have a demon inside controlling us. Scripture supports that the house needs to be swept clean and receive the indwelling Holy Spirit or the demon might find the clean space and return with a flock of buddies. No, the nearest we get is oppression and that's bad enough. We can have demons attached, call it assigned to us if you will. But if handled right they will flee.

I'm from the camp that if a believer has a demon possessing him/her, they were never born again. People can look the part of a Christian externally, play the part even, do all the rituals of church service etc.... But the proof is in the heart, that must be changed.

Just curious, how many times have you cast demons out of anyone?

 

[Marumorose]

Is there any scripture stating that a born-again believer can be indwelled with a demon?

Matthew 12:43-45 says "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."

If for an example you were a thief and become born again but still commit fornication or lie or gossip, you give demons the power to possess you.

 

[dms1972]

Is there any scripture stating that a born-again believer can be indwelled with a demon?

Depends what you mean by "have a demon"?

I am by no means an expert on the subject. So this is only my tuppence worth on it.

I think its helpful to make a distinction between, oppression, demonization, and demonic possession, and I have seen some writers on the topic do this.

Christians could be oppressed, depending on circumstances, as an example - perhaps when on a mission trip. The late Leanne Payne, who was involved in Pastoral ministry for 30 odd years, told of an instance of oppression she encountered when as a christian she was working on a high security psychiatric ward. It lasted several months she said because at the time she did not understand spiritual warfare. I think its in her biography, she tells about it.

A christian or non-christian might be demonized due to building a 'house' through some habitual sin in their life for demons to inhabit, even so they are not demon-possessed, as they still have some limited degree of control.

Whether a born-again christian can be demon-possessed (temporarily) is something I don't know the answer to, TBH.

 

[Francis Drake]

Can YHWH indwell a temple full of demons?

What fellowship does light have with darkness?

Demonisation is not about fellowship, its about manipulation and control.

As Job shows, the idea that Satan or demons cannot be seen in the presence of the Lord has no basis in scripture.
Job1v6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan was in their midst. 7And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

Likewise, John shows Satan confronting God about you and me.-
Rev12v10Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

 

[Francis Drake]

Depends what you mean by "have a demon".

Christians may be oppressed, depending on circumstances, as an example - perhaps when on a mission trip.

I think its helpful to make a distinction between demonization and demonic possession, and I have seen some writers on the topic do this.

Scripture makes no difference.
Whatever name you use, it always amounts to a demon entering within the body of whoever is the subject.
Jesus cast demons "out" of people. That means the demons were inside them. And there was no differentiation between believer or unbeliever.

In which case a christian or non-christian might be demonized due to building a 'house' through some habitual sin in their life for demons to inhabit, even so they are not demon-possessed, as they still have some limited degree of control.

You are playing with words.
Many years ago, I rented a house. I was given the door keys, and took possession of the property. I entered and dwelt there till I chose to leave, or was evicted by a higher authority.
That's how demons work.

Whether a born-again christian can be demon-possessed (temporarily) is something I don't know the answer to, TBH.

Well I do, and the answer is definitely yes, believers can certainly be demon possessed.

I have been involved with deliverance for 40 years and have cast out countless demons.
Every time I cast demons out of people, it is from Christians.

Unbelievers don't even believe in demons, why would they ask that they be cast out.

 

[Dave G.]

Just curious, how many times have you cast demons out of anyone?

I personally have not ever cast one out.. Have you ? But we know Jesus did for sure

 

[dms1972]

Scripture makes no difference.
Whatever name you use, it always amounts to a demon entering within the body of whoever is the subject.
Jesus cast demons "out" of people. That means the demons were inside them. And there was no differentiation between believer or unbeliever.

You are playing with words.
Many years ago, I rented a house. I was given the door keys, and took possession of the property. I entered and dwelt there till I chose to leave, or was evicted by a higher authority.
That's how demons work.


Well I do, and the answer is definitely yes, believers can certainly be demon possessed.

I have been involved with deliverance for 40 years and have cast out countless demons.
Every time I cast demons out of people, it is from Christians.

Unbelievers don't even believe in demons, why would they ask that they be cast out.

If you will read my post, I never even suggested unbelievers would ask. I would question though that unbelievers have no belief in demons, you seem to be assuming every unbeliever is a rationalist. Plenty of people nowadays have some awareness even if its only through certain films of the existence of demons. They are not christians, but they are not all rationalists either.

I don't think I am playing with words, and I would question whether scripture doesn't make a distinction.

But that's me finished here, nothing more foolish than arguing over the devil and his tricks.

 

[Francis Drake]

I personally have not ever cast one out.. Have you ? But we know Jesus did for sure

Your previous post spoke confidently that believers can't have demons, and anyone who has a demon can't be born again.
That's why I asked if you had done any deliverance! Had you done any deliverance, you would know the folly of that teaching.

I have been casting demons out of people for the last 40 years, and always from Christians, never unbelievers.

 

[Dave G.]

I have been involved with deliverance for 40 years and have cast out countless demons.
Every time I cast demons out of people, it is from Christians.

Many people believe they are Christians but were never regenerated/born again. And perhaps so if they had that demon all along, that they couldn't be. We hear from the mission fields especially in places like Haiti and Africa where someone had to be delivered before accepting Jesus and not going into contortions and such things. Absolutely. You would have to show me in scripture where a blood bought born again believer then received a possessing demon before I believe otherwise. In fact I would submit to you until that time comes, that the "christian believers" you cast the demons out of ( and praise God you have) were never born again.

 

[Francis Drake]

Many people believe they are Christians but were never regenerated/born again. And perhaps so if they had that demon all along, that they couldn't be.

Sorry but this is theological nonsense, from someone who has no experience of the real world of deliverance.
Despite someone being badly demonised, there is absolutely nothing to stop him crying out to Jesus!

We hear from the mission fields especially in places like Haiti and Africa where someone had to be delivered before accepting Jesus and not going into contortions and such things. Absolutely.

This is not some third world place, but the UK, and I know the same is true in the US.

You would have to show me in scripture where a blood bought born again believer then received a possessing demon before I believe otherwise.

Read my post no61 about Ananias and Sapphira. They were blood bought believers, and Satan entered into them.

In fact I would submit to you until that time comes, that the "christian believers" you cast the demons out of ( and praise God you have) were never born again.

Submit to me all you like, but its still dead theology, backed by no practical experience.

The great majority of people I have cast demons out of were people I already knew, all born again Christians who wanted to get their lives sorted out to serve God better.

Jesus commanded us to cast demons out as a part of the gospel.
Mark16v15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
Are you doing this?

Jesus also said.
Lk11v24“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ 25And when he comes, he finds it swept and put in order. 26Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first.”
This is why I don't cast demons out of unbelievers because they have no protection.. Should the demon return, it could walk straight through the door.

I very strongly encourage you to check out any deliverance ministries in your area. See if they do any practical teaching sessions.
At the moment, you are like someone who has lived all his life in the mountains, arguing the finer details of sailing, when he's never even seen the sea!

 

[Dave G.]

Read my post no61 about Ananias and Sapphira. They were blood bought believers, and Satan entered into them.

]

Satan filled their hearts but that doesn't mean possession by any stretch of the imagination. For one thing only God is omnipresent, Satan is not omnipresent, so he couldn't even physically fill both hearts at the same time to begin with. No the inference here is their hearts were filled with the malice and thinking of Satan. It's like Jesus saying to Peter get ye behind me Satan. He wasn't literally meaning Peter was Satan, He loves Peter. And Satan is his own entity and Peter isn't it . Or it's like calling a child "full of the devil" when getting into mischief, I doubt anyone ever said that about a silly kid meaning they were the literal devil. You gotta do better than this.

 

[Contenders Edge]

​

That was before Jesus was Resurrected. The consensus is that the indwelling of God's Spirit wasn't possible with His disciples/Apostles until after Jesus ascended to Heaven.

John 14:16
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.​

A true Spiritually Born Again Believer can't be possessed of a demon, but is possible for an immature believer (unbelieving believer) to be oppressed. One modern trend in some churches is to use Christian psychology (an oxymoron) to "deliver" a Christian from demonic oppression NOT possession.

The premise is that the elder that has been trained to minister deliverance will begin by commanding the demon not to speak. Well, that in itself comes pretty close to implying a demonic possession. It's all psychological and it's possible that the trained elder might not even be Spirit-filled (anointed). He may not even have the Gift of supernatural Knowledge, Wisdom and/or Discernment. The Pastor and board chooses an elder with good people skills with perceptive intuition. Then it may take at least a week or more for his/her (a man for men & a woman for women) training based more on Christian Psychology which in itself is based more on philosophy than the leading of the Holy Spirit ...

James 4:7
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.​

As a new creation in Christ sinful acts are no longer practiced whether it be lust or gluttony just to mention two. From what i know a person going through this Christian Psychology approach realizes they have to make effort to listen, learn, read their Bible daily and pray as they now not only have to be accountable to the church elders, but more importantly the LORD. In other words in the end it's still up to them by drawing closer than ever in establishing a relationship to their Savior and LORD as friend and deliver.

While I certainly do not dispute most of what you are saying, there is a reason why Satan chose to possess Judas and not any of the other disciples and that is because the heart of Judas was not with Christ to begin with while the other disciples were sincerely devoted to Christ and as a result of their belief in Him, they were shielded from demonic possession.

The Holy Spirit has worked with people in at least three different ways:

1. He can be with them.

2. He can be upon them.

3. He can indwell them, just as He presently indwells believers today.

The same Spirit that rested upon Christ was also resting on His followers, but obviously did not come to rest upon Judas because Judas was an evil man from the start and had no sincere interest in serving Christ. He only followed Christ for his own selfish purposes.

 

[Francis Drake]

Satan filled their hearts but that doesn't mean possession by any stretch of the imagination.

Playing with words again. The scripture tells us they entered into Ananias, but as usual, you know better.

For one thing only God is omnipresent, Satan is not omnipresent, so he couldn't even physically fill both hearts at the same time to begin with.

Of course Satan is not omnipresent, but the name Satan is often used as a metaphor for a demon, or demons. I often do the same when casting them out.

But again you pontificate on things you are blind, deaf and utterly ignorant of.
In contrast, my theology is backed by countless results over 40years, with many Christians having their lives turned around when demons are cast out.

My own life as a born again Christian was turned around when I first had demons cast out. You cannot deny that first hand testimony, nor can you claim I wasn't born again when it happened!

But to repeat an earlier question, are you obeying Jesus's commandment to cast demons out, and if not, why not?

 

[Francis Drake]

Many people believe they are Christians but were never regenerated/born again. And perhaps so if they had that demon all along, that they couldn't be....
In fact I would submit to you until that time comes, that the "christian believers" you cast the demons out of ( and praise God you have) were never born again.

I was born again as a child, and I am nearly 70 now. So my walk is long and full of experience.
Over the decades, I have personally had many demons cast out from deep within me. This has been either by friends during times of prayer, or more often cast out by myself when the Lord has revealed them.
Take note, these demons were hidden deep within me, a long time born again child of God. When they were identified, they were cast out on command.

So your claim that such people were never born again is utterly foolish. As I have said many times, my theology is backed by over 40 years experience and countless Christians delivered into spiritual freedom.

Your testimony on this subject is a blank page.

Of course, there is one prime "Doctrines of Demons" that Satan uses to control the church.
That is the doctrine that say "born again Christians cannot have demons". It is a superb piece of deception spread far and wide by either gullible, or ungodly messengers.

 

[Dave G.]

But to repeat an earlier question, are you obeying Jesus's commandment to cast demons out, and if not, why not?

Thanks for your concern about that.

I have driven spirits out of my life, workplace and even home . I personally came under oppression (strong personal attacks) here a couple of years back too and had to clean house. But I've never been a part of what you call a deliverance ministry otherwise. And the ministry I am in, if the need arises, it's a pastors duty to remove spirits from people. As I mentioned our missions pastors have had to do this. So I wouldn't be called to that service.

I'm not here to argue though or to be attacked by words. So if you have something edifying to say I'll listen but otherwise probably not. I like your testimony though.

 

[Francis Drake]

Thanks for your concern about that.

I have driven spirits out of my life, workplace and even home . I personally came under oppression (strong personal attacks) here a couple of years back too and had to clean house. But I've never been a part of what you call a deliverance ministry otherwise. And the ministry I am in, if the need arises, it's a pastors duty to remove spirits from people.

Its not the pastors duty at all, as scripture says its the job of all believers.
But who do your pastors cast them out of?

 

[Dave G.]

Its not the pastors duty at all, as scripture says its the job of all believers.
But who do your pastors cast them out of?

Well the pastors are believers too and in our church it is their duty. Sorry, I have no power to change how they do things. I've already stated I've worked in my own life with oppression.

They have cast demons out of the demon possessed. True possession, where the demon has control. One case the guy went nuts getting baptized, came up screaming in a strange voice. He had to be delivered and then re-baptized and it went fine.

I'd take what you describe as breaking strongholds, generational curses and possible demon oppression. Demon oppression can get pretty bad though. But hey, just me and you claim victory in that field and I'm not going to argue about it... But I'm not so sure from my own view point, it's really possession you're victorious over. The cases we hear of are several magnitude more severe than a deep seated anomaly of some kind. These people are clearly possessed, faces contort ( that I've seen myself in witnessing here in the states) when you try to lead them to the gospel, and either uncontrolled laughter or screams. If they get delivered then they act normal. And again this is often where voodoo or witchcraft is present. In one person I spoke with about the gospel, she was severely afflicted with alcohol but I believe she had a demon by the look in her eyes, full body shuttering etc as I spoke. She was over taken, I've never seen eyes shift like that, a very pretty lady with beautiful eyes turn all dark and stormy. I had to stop and I believe she needed to be delivered in order to continue..

I'll be 70 soon too lol !!

 

[Francis Drake]

Hi Dave, Thank you for continuing, and I apologise for being a little confrontational, my bad.
I'm just trying wake people up from their complacency on the subject, which far too many want to stick their heads in the sand over.

They have cast demons out of the demon possessed. True possession, where the demon has control. One case the guy went nuts getting baptized, came up screaming in a strange voice. He had to be delivered and then re-baptized and it went fine.

But surely this testimony proves that Christians can still have demons within them, unless of course your church baptises unbelievers.

Just think for a moment, if unbelievers can never ever become believers, till all demons are cast out, the unbeliever's salvation depends entirely randomly, whether there is a spiritually alive church nearby with a competent deliverance ministry.
And given the majority of churches today reject all understanding of demons, let alone operate a deliverance ministry, there would be no hope of salvation for the majority of demonised unbelievers, even if they sought it!
And the demoniac at Gadara proves they do seek it.

I'd take what you describe as breaking strongholds, generational curses and possible demon oppression.

Breaking strongholds, generational curses and oppression all come under the same biblical heading, Demonisation. The solution for them all is deliverance, just like Jesus showed throughout his ministry when he cast them out of people.

I have broken the power of countless generational curses off Christians, and every last curse was caused by a demon within the believer, passed down from the family, usually through many generations.

Original demonisation always starts with oppression. ie. the demons harass a person, and if like the majority of Christians, he is weak, he will start submitting to the lies and believing them. Once he does that, the door is wide open for the demon to walk in and make himself at home.
I have witnessed this happen thousands of times. In such cases, its no good doing deliverance till the person is taught how to combat the lies of the enemy. Then I usually instruct him to cast the demons out using his own voice.
The demons, or evil spirits, a word which means breath or wind, usually come out with the wind, ie. large yawns burps, or coughs.

Demon oppression can get pretty bad though. But hey, just me and you claim victory in that field and I'm not going to argue about it...

No more arguing, just hopeful persuasion that you would listen to someone who walks in different circles to you. And take note, I started out from your position.

But I'm not so sure from my own view point, it's really possession you're victorious over.

I wish you wouldn't use the word "Possession". Its a far too loaded word. Scripture calls it demonization.

Strong's Concordance
daimonizomai: to be possessed by a demon
Original Word: δαιμονίζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: daimonizomai
Phonetic Spelling: (dahee-mon-id'-zom-ahee)
Definition: to be possessed by a demon
Usage: I am possessed, am under the power of an evil-spirit or demon.
HELPS Word-studies
1139 daimonízomai (from 1142 /daímōn) – properly, demonized, i.e. coming under the power of a demon (fallen angel).
The problem with using "possessed" is that it leads to a fruitless debate between that and "oppressed". I can justify using possessed even for Christians, but it diverts attention from the truth of what Demons can do when they inhabit believers.

When scripture uses the word demonization, Jesus always always always responded by casting them out, out from within people, and commanded his disciples to do likewise.

 

[Francis Drake]

The cases we hear of are several magnitude more severe than a deep seated anomaly of some kind. These people are clearly possessed, faces contort ( that I've seen myself in witnessing here in the states) when you try to lead them to the gospel, and either uncontrolled laughter or screams. If they get delivered then they act normal. And again this is often where voodoo or witchcraft is present. In one person I spoke with about the gospel, she was severely afflicted with alcohol but I believe she had a demon by the look in her eyes, full body shuttering etc as I spoke. She was over taken, I've never seen eyes shift like that, a very pretty lady with beautiful eyes turn all dark and stormy. I had to stop and I believe she needed to be delivered in order to continue..

I'll be 70 soon too lol !!

Far too many people like their sin, so will resist offers of help, but as I said last time, the demoniac at Gadara proves that demons cannot stop people seeking salvation if they want it.
And most sadly, many surrender their lives to the Lord, join the church, and then get no help dealing with the demons that pollute their minds and bodies.

However, its not the violent or outrageous demons that we should worry about, its the subtle ones that exert silent control over what a person believes or does.

Over 30 years ago, (here in the UK) when I was still fairly new in the game, I and a friend were asked to pray for a visitor to the church.
She gave very little clues as to what her problem was, so after committing the problems to the Lord, I suggested we waited on God for a word of knowledge or something.

After a few minutes, I received the following word. "The spirit of Mormon".
At the time, I had no real understanding of Mormonism to guide me, so I spoke out the word to her.
She was immediately very indignant, saying she had never had anything to do with Mormonism. I apologised and we carried on waiting and doing some general prayer.

Then suddenly, she cried out and put her hand over her mouth in shock. "I've just remembered," she said, "When I was a little girl, my mother told me the story of my great great great great grandfather. He went to America and went out on the great trek to Salt Lake with Brigham Young!"

That trek to Salt lake happened about 140 years prior to us praying with this faithful Christian lady. Nevertheless, by a simple Word of Knowledge, God revealed that a demon of Mormonism had travelled down the family line, father to daughter etc, and was still within her and spiritually oppressing her, and making her walk difficult.
Needless to say, we drove it out, making sure it had no right to continue any further down her family line.

I give this testimony to show how insidious demons are, and how you can't dismiss their presence or influence on believers.

Most spirits we deal with are mundane, like spirits of pornography or lust, prevalent among men and women.
Spirits of unbelief that are prevalent among intellectuals and theologians.
Spirits of anger and unforgiveness that really make it difficult for Christians to walk freely before God.
Spirits of witchcraft manipulation and control.

and so on.

 

[Dave G.]

Ya it actually hit me last night that we are talking about demonization in any case here. So I find it no coincidence you bring that up today.