came across something this morning

[Damian]

Something came across my mind this morning while reading the threads. I realized that when people say they don't believe in God that they actually do but they don't realize it. See one of my theories is that if you don't believe in something then you actually do believe in that something or else you wouldn't say I don't believe that. It goes the same way with God. Someone says "I don't believe in God." well they actually do or else they wouldn't have said that. They had to some instant or moment in their mind or life to believe in God or else they wouldn't have said it. Lets see what everyone else thinks.

Mark

 

[DrummerGirl]

Thats a good point!

 

[DeputyDan]

I think you are saying that they are giving recognition to an entity that supposedly does not exist.

 

[Gerry]

I understand exactly what you are saying Mark. And I am more than a little sure that most people who claim to be atheist do it for a number of insincere reasons: Sometimes they are mad at God for one reason or another, and are striking out thinking they will hurt Him, and keep others from believing in Him. Others just think it is cute to defy God and aggravate Christians. I have no way of knowing percentages but I would imagine that the vast majority of professing atheist really know in their hearts there is a God.

Problem is, for many years I called God a liar without realizing it. I paraded around denying that there was any such thing as an atheist. I said they were really just liars, because anyone with an IQ of 1 or higher would know there is a God. But then I ran afoul of this one Scripture:

Psalm 14:1: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."

Well I had to repent in a hurry. God's Word clearly declares there are such things. God said the FOOL has said in his heart there is no God. Now if you believe something in your heart, then you really believe it. So according to God's Word, there are fools that do not believe that God exists. How sad that is!

As Christians we should be ever vigilant and watchful of our own behaviour in front of these people, and should never engage them in any senseless debate about the existence of God. When we do that, we are wasting the time Jesus commanded us to Redeem and spend wisely. We need to pray for these individuals and love them as Christ loves them, and let them see the love of Jesus in us.

But we need never to go to Apologetics and engage them in non-sense discussions where they demand proof that God exists. If we must post at all there we should post only Scripture with no comment and let them argue with the Bible and not us. But we could more wisely spend our time developing that closer relationship, and deeper fellowship with our God and one another. We would do more for the Atheists by praying for them and living our lives as an example to them.

They are Atheist because they cannot see God. Let's let them see Him in us. Let them come to us, rather than we go to them, and fall into the trap of a debate or argument that only steals our Joy and confuses young Christians. And when they come, let them SEE Jesus in us!

 

[Evening Mist]

I think many times a person who says "I don't believe in God" actually *means* --
"I don't perceive God in the same way that you do."

Or more often,
"I don't believe in the Christian God."

Or especially,
"I don't call him/her "God," even though I do believe in Someone."

 

[Gerry]

Or more often,
"I don't believe in the Christian God."

Indeed! Isn't that eaxctly what an atheist is? Isn't that what the dictionary defines as an atheist? And isn't that the only God we are concerned with? What does it matter if an atheist believes in strange gods or perceives and apple tree to be God? And if he calls what He perceives to be
God "Elizabeth" is he not still wrong? Isn't the effect the same?

May I suggest it is and say again, that we need to pray for these and exhibit the love of God in our lives in such a way, they may see Jesus in us.

 

[Evening Mist]

Many people believe in an undefined "higher power." Just because they don't recognize him doesn't mean they aren't aware of him.

 

[Gerry]

Today at 05:01 PM Evening Mist said this in Post #7 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=647210#post647210)

Many people believe in an undefined "higher power." Just because they don't recognize him doesn't mean they aren't aware of him.

You are absolutely correct. And how sad that is. Many organizations tout a "higher power"! Just as an ant does not recognize me, to an ant I am definitely a higher power, yet I am not God.

That is what Paul was talking about: Acts 17:23: "For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you."

Therefore to those who do acknowlege that a such a higher power exists, it is our job as Christians to define and to declare the Name of that Power.

 

[Evening Mist]

Hmm. Okay. Just remember, He has lots of names.

 

[Gerry]

Today at 08:37 PM Evening Mist said this in Post #9 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=647681#post647681)

Hmm. Okay. Just remember, He has lots of names.

LOL INDEED He does! Wish I was a speed typist. I would list 30 or 40 right quick. And that is the interesting thing about the Hebrew and Greek. They are so precise and descriptive, and in each place in the Bible just the right Name is applied to the circumstance.

Maybe we should start a thread for the sole purpose of listing His Name! What do you think? Yes?

 

[Sharky]

I can relate to atheism. When i was young i didn't quite know if God exists or not. To me the word God was just another word. I just hear people blaspheme His name all around me and so the word God remained as a non existent entity. At the time i was an atheist. Well, in a sense anyway. It wasn't a concious choice i made then, i was just atheistic the whole way.

Wasn't until i was about 15 or 16 that i truely found out that God does exist and love us all. I can't really explain it, but then again i don't have to . God seemed to just touch my heart one day and it was a new road from there.

So yeah, not all atheists have had believed He existed anyway my case for one. Some just don't know until they see Him. Then when they see Him, they deny it because He's too good to be true. He just didn't satisfy what they want to see. Weird huh?

God has alot of names? I'll just stick with God.

 

[Damian]

So you all believe what I am saying is true... that people who say they dont' believe in a god that they actually do believe that there is a god out there. And those that don't believe in God that they really think that sometime in there life that there is God... cause i am trying to explain this to my school bible group....FCA.. and its really hard...
Mark

 

[Evening Mist]

Yes, I do Damian. God is written on our hearts. But when you talk with a person who claims that he doesn't -- it is respectful to take his words at face value until he says otherwise.

But very few people deny the existance of "someone" or some spiritual truth. Spirituality has always been a high priority to people, Christian or not.

Some people have never met their mothers, but they still know must have had one.

 

[Gerry]

Remember what God said though.

Psalm 14:1: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."

 

[Evening Mist]

But Jesus says, "....Anyone who says, "You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."Mat. 5:22.

We don't get to call people fools, friend.

 

[reeann]

Isn't Matthew the Sermon on the Mount? I think Jesus was teaching us that harboring hatred in your heart against a person is the same as committing the act itself spiritually. While the Psalmist was stating that a person who did not believe in God was foolish?

I'm open to correction if my reasoning is incorrect.

 

[Gerry]

Today at 12:41 PM Evening Mist said this in Post #15 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=648921#post648921)

Ha. But Jesus says, "....Anyone who says, "You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."Mat. 5:22.

We don't get to call people fools, friend.

OK! Well I want discuss it any further with you. Believe as you wish. But this much I can tell you, whatever Bible translation you are using is defective and you need to replace it. Mine does not say that nor does any translation I know of nor do the Greek Septuigent. What it actually says is:

Matthew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

I am sorry to tell you, but Jesus NEVER EVER taught the universal brotherhood of man. That is a lie the devil preaches. A Christian is no BROTHER to an atheist nor any one else who denies Jesus.

Oh well, I wont continue this any further. Once people make up their minds there is no need for debate, for nothing will change it.

That is the purpose of having a deeper fellowship with God. The Holy Spirit will teach you all you need to know, if you open to Him. That is why I am getting very reluctant to offer anything in these forums other than Scripture. That way the argument is not with me, but with the Scripture.

 

[Evening Mist]

Gerry. I didn't realize this was becoming heated from your POV. I'm sort of startled by the tone of your last post, and sorry that you don't want to talk with me anymore. I would have been more careful if I had realized.

I don't really know what you mean by the "universal brotherhood of man." Sorry, that is an unfamiliar term to me.

What I am arguing is that we ought to speak respectufully toward everyone we interact with. Telling someone they are lying or foolish, when you cannot read their heart is not what God would want us to do. It is God's place to judge and decide who is foolish. Not ours.

Again, I'm sorry to have solicited so much hostility. I didn't mean to.

 

[Evening Mist]

Gerry, whether or not you are correct about brotherhood, I am curious about why it is so important to you. Why is it a problem to treat an athiest with the kindness and respect that you reserve for a brother or sister?

But I guess you aren't talking to me anymore.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Today at 07:44 PM Evening Mist said this in Post #19

Damion, whether or not you are correct about brotherhood, I am curious about why it is so important to you. Why is it a problem to treat an athiest with the kindness and respect that you reserve for a brother or sister?

But I guess you aren't talking to me anymore.

 Please excuse me for sticking my nose in the middle of this but I'm only trying to be a peacemaker.

 I could be wrong but I don't think Gerry was calling anyone in particular a "fool". He was simply quoting scripture as he saw how it applied to the question.

On your question about  "universal brotherhood". IMO Christians should treat athiest with kindness and respect. However, Christians also need to recognize that they are not members of the same spritual family as non-believers. In this sense they are not "brothers" or "sisters" with non-believers. Within the the scriptures is ample support for this belief as well as instructions to Christians as to how they should interact with those who do not believe.