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&Abel

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solomon actually has a lot in common with Lucifer

"You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13"You were in (M)Eden, the garden of God;
(N)Every precious stone was your covering:
The (O)ruby, the topaz and the diamond;
The beryl, the onyx and the jasper;
The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald;
And the gold, the workmanship of your (P)settings and sockets,
Was in you.
On the day that you were created
They were prepared.
14"You were the (Q)anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there
You were on the holy (R)mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the (S)stones of fire.
15"You were (T)blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until (U)unrighteousness was found in you.
16"By the (V)abundance of your trade
You were internally (W)filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17"Your heart was lifted up because of your (X)beauty;
You (Y)corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor

I cast you to the ground;
I put you before (Z)kings,
That they may see you.
18"By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought (AA)fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to (AB)ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19"All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become (AC)terrified
And you will cease to be (AD)forever."'"
 
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Rick Otto

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quote=Thekla; but this doesn't explain how the spiritual arises from matter !
(Double take) Whatchyootalkin'boutWillis?!
Spirit 'risin' from matter?
Someone been pullin' your leg?
Is it that guy with the magic 8 Ball again?
I told ya just pay him for the pizza & get rid of him.


Or what happened to the image, or the matter of the likeness.
Adam made a mess of it. Sort of like my bathroom mirror after I brush my teeth. (Actualy, he killed it.)


Yeah. He's just that kinda God.
 
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&Abel

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14(M)Now the weight of gold which came in to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold, 15besides that from the traders and the [a]wares of the merchants and all the kings of the (N)Arabs and the governors of the country.
16(O)King Solomon made 200 large shields of beaten gold, using 600 shekels of gold on each large shield.
17He made (P)300 shields of beaten gold, using three minas of gold on each shield, and (Q)the king put them in the house of the forest of Lebanon.
18Moreover, the king made a great throne of (R)ivory and overlaid it with refined gold.
19There were six steps to the throne and a round top to the throne at its rear, and arms on each side of the seat, and two lions standing beside the arms.
20Twelve lions were standing there on the six steps on the one side and on the other; nothing like it was made for any other kingdom.
21All King Solomon's drinking vessels were of gold, and all the vessels of the house of the forest of Lebanon were of pure gold. None was of silver; it was not considered [b]valuable in the days of Solomon.
22For (S)the king had at sea the ships of Tarshish with the ships of Hiram; once every three years the ships of Tarshish came bringing gold and silver, ivory and apes and peacocks.
23(T)So King Solomon became greater than all the kings of the earth in riches and in wisdom.
24All the earth was seeking the presence of Solomon, (U)to hear his wisdom which God had put in his heart.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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solomon actually has a lot in common with Lucifer
King David was no "Mother Theresa" either

[NKJV]2 Samuel 11:14 In the morning it happened that David wrote a letter to Joab and sent [it] by the hand of Uriah. 15 And he wrote in the letter, saying, "Set Uriah in the forefront of the hottest battle, and retreat from him, that he may be struck down and die."
26 When the wife of Uriah heard that Uriah her husband was dead, she mourned for her husband. 27 And when her mourning was over, David sent and brought her to his house, and she became his wife and bore him a son. But the thing that David had done displeased the LORD.
 
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Thekla

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So far, I think a huge difference is over what happened to the image; was it covered (EO) or lost ? We consider the conscience and choice as 'God-given', in some sense a "deposit" of the image. The "covering" of image and mortality effect how we see our "choices" ie make it more likely that we sin. Your point about 'interface' resonates a bit with EO.


Yeah, but go easy on him. You women can be persuasively suggestive in the extreme without consciously intending to be.
its truly because we're better cooks (inheritance of the apple thing )

Maybe; but like I said, the Greek (LXX) clearly says "towards" likeness, indicating motion. The Masoretic OT I use says the same. This ties into the "challenges" given to Abraham, Noah - many of the 'friends of God' of the OT. In this way they developed towards their spiritual potential. Adam just fell off the 'growth charts' pretty early on.

One man's problem is another's exciting challenge.
The only relationship pre-existing was the Trinity. We are created in the image of God. If the image includes relational problems, then the relationship 'in' Trinity is the implied source. (Again, Adam preferred Eve to God before the Fall).
 
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&Abel

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ya but he repented and suffered for his sin
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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its really weird to read proverbs knowing that actually

he really didn't practice what he preached lol

(I'm gonna go on about this I can tell jk )
he learned that YHWH is both Loving and Forgiving but He hates Sin, and Solomon does not want his children/us to fall into the same "traps/snares" as he did.
 
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&Abel

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he learned that YHWH is both Loving and Forgiving but He hates Sin, and Solomon does not want his children/us to fall into the same "traps/snares" as he did.

I'm really not one to talk

I've been talking a big game about fighting sin yet I keep getting up for cigarettes

 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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I'm really not one to talk

I've been talking a big game about fighting sin yet I keep getting up for cigarettes

No worries mate, I am smoking one now myself
 
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Thekla

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(Double take) Whatchyootalkin'boutWillis?!
Spirit 'risin' from matter?
Someone been pullin' your leg?
Is it that guy with the magic 8 Ball again?
I told ya just pay him for the pizza & get rid of him.
oh noyou don't, I'm headin' back to the apple http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/kawaii.gif The temptation is evidenced first with Eve; she heard the word of Satan and then she acted on it. She made a 'wrong choice' (consider, Satan didn't even know her name - typically an indication that she wasn't in relationship with, but in acting started one). Then, Adam acted on her suggestion. Evil wasn't inherent in the image, but choice was. How can we inherit a spiritual condition ? We inherit mortality, but how can we inherit evil ? If the image is completely lost, how can Able be pleasing to God ? Abel and Cain indicate that 'choice' remains as part of the image. What did Abel inherit from Adam ?
Adam made a mess of it. Sort of like my bathroom mirror after I brush my teeth. (Actualy, he killed it.)
Then how can his sons end up 50/50 - one chooses towards God, one chooses against God.
Yeah. He's just that kinda God.
But the voluntary crucifixion was not a 'threat'.
 
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Rick Otto

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but ya I think I've been hard enough on solomon

he did a lot of good things but threw it all away in the end
He made a shipwreck of his faith, he harmed his witness, his justification was reduced, but his salvation was not affected:
1Co 3:15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
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&Abel

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he turned from god

he worshipped other gods

he was not saved

he was warned TWICE of what would happen if he did it

and he still did it

there is NOTHING included in the end of the verse about him repenting(and there would have been had it been the case)

given that he was a chosen vessel of god and turned...it would have been vital information had he turned back

the lesson here is that anyone can fall if they turn from god
 
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drstevej

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."
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Argument from silence
 
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Rick Otto

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Same way we can inherit a bad debt - legal obligation.

We inherit mortality, but how can we inherit evil ?
Mortality isn't evil? It's a curse, ya know...

If the image is completely lost, how can Able be pleasing to God ?
Thru the faith we can conclude he posessed by his obedience.

Abel and Cain indicate that 'choice' remains as part of the image.
Even animals make choices.
It has to do with the quality of choices - "spiritual" choices that require a living spirit, not just a soul.
What did Abel inherit from Adam ?
The need to get saved.
Then how can his sons end up 50/50 - one chooses towards God, one chooses against God.
God has mercy upon whom He will. Romans 9 says it has to do with His being willing to make His power known, to show His longsuffering, etc. and elswhere we see that the drama involved has a 'refining fire' part in "perfecting the saints".
I'm not sure it would be fruitful to try and find a formula to apply to everyone that answers why God chose to have salvific mercy on one & not the other.

But the voluntary crucifixion was not a 'threat'.
I don't know what you mean by that.
Gotta run for now again. Back in a few hours.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Argument from silence
I agree........All died before they could see JESUS.
Do ya think JESUS went and visited him for the 3 days after the Crucifixion?

Eccles 2:9 So I became great and excelled more than all who were before me in Jerusalem. Also my wisdom remained with me. 10 Whatever my eyes desired I did not keep from them. I did not withhold my heart from any pleasure, For my heart rejoiced in all my labor; And this was my reward from all my labor.
 
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