Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
In many debates in Soteriology, many Arminians profess that God's grace only makes salvation possible, that we need to claim it for ourselves and work to hold onto it. In my mind, that is the same as working for your salvation.
i wasn't a better Christian. Perhaps i might have appeared to be a better Christian, but the fact of the matter is that i was trying to finish by works what was begun and maintained by grace.
It lead to innumerable difficulties.
wow, u sure added a lot of stuff to my post. I commend anyone including myself to the grace of God. If you were once arminian but feel less motivated as a Christian now, I suggest taking that to God in prayer. Love motivates obediece without asking nor expecting anything in return. Only God can give that love. If it is not there now as much as one would like, it might have never rely been there to begin with. We must pray for our faith.We believe that faith comes from God. So, the faith that was given to him by God was not good enough? He must work harder to grow that faith? What are you implying?
wow, u sure added a lot of stuff to my post.
First there is no tension. God is absolutely sovereign and man is responsible. Jonah must be made to go preach to Nineveh. Why? Because men do exactly as they desire and God uses man's will to accomplish His purpose.Just as it is very easy for Arminians to assume and overreach on "freewill", Calvinists can, and often do, become fatalists. It's what puts the "frozen" in the "frozen chosen", at times.
There is a tension that must be maintained in order to stay true to the scriptures. If I'm honest, it's not an easy tightrope to walk for me. Not being able to live in the tension of God's sovereignty and mans responsibility, I've vacillated between the two more than I have held the balance. I know that God is sovereign over all his creation, no matter what I do, yet, my prayers can "move mountains".
If I lean toward the position that my actions have more power and influence than they actually do, I can also become frozen - frozen with fear. If I thought that my witness, for example, had the power to save a soul, I would never open my mouth in proclamation of the gospel for fear of doing it wrong, and damning the poor soul I hoped to rescue, but, on the other had, if I imagine that my deeds have no influence on the course of things, if I think that my witness has NO influence in the rescue of a soul, I will also freeze, but I'll freeze in slumber and sloth. The same goes for prayer. If I think that my prayers twist God's arm, and can alter the course of history greatly, then that is too great a burden for me to know how or what to pray, but if I see my prayers as futile because God has predetermined everything anyway, then I will not petition him. What would be the point, I feel.
Two questions for you:
1) How have you failed to maintain this balance?
2) How would you help a person avoid these two pitfalls?
I don't understand how you could have been a "better" Christian if you were in error. You mean you preformed more works?
I don't understand how you could have been a "better" Christian if you were in error. You mean you preformed more works?
Yes.
Before you go all "salvation comes from faith and not works" on me, keep in mind that I am talking about the works that come from faith and not any kind of salvation-earning works (since the latter do not exist).
Sometimes, when you are still in darkness, you don't realize you are in error. I honestly did not associate my desire to do the "work of the kingdom" with working for my salvation until I was able to understand that you can't work for your salvation. By that time, I was so burnt out and in spiritual and emotional turmoil from the roller coaster ride I had been on that I couldn't do anything, so I sat in the back of the church for 6 years and did nothing. Since then, I have found a balance and found a yearning to do more (for the right reason.)
Works are indeed the obverse side of the soteriological coin but never a personal measure of being good. Not once were you a profitable servant. The works you did as an Arminian were only accepted in Christ. The works you do as a Calvinist are only accepted in Christ. Any personal legalism that have to do with good works are just that, personal legalisms. I have a feeling you are still clinging to Arminian notions about works rather than the biblically Reformed idea.
Yours in the Lord,
jm
That described my experience to the letter.
At this point in my life, it really seems as though God has blocked me from churchy activity. I feel sidelined, but I know that my activity was a way to justify myself. He is making me sit still for a bit, probably so that I rely on him for my identity rather than my busy work.
I think it is true that I was a better Christian when I was Arminian, too, but I don't know if that was because I was doing things out of a guilty conscience or because I actually wanted to do them. I know I did so many things I was putting the quality of my service to the test, but I felt if things needed to be done and no one was stepping up to do them, I felt I needed to. At the same time I was a Sunday School teacher, a young adult leader, a worship commissioner, in charge of pot lucks, and on the outreach team. All that with my regular life to lead. I also know I cried out in my prayers to God asking if I was doing enough for Him. When I left that church, I sat in the back of the new church for 6 years before making a commitment. Since I have become a Calvinist, and know that it is by grace we are saved, I have cut my commitment back dramatically, but I think, basically, I am still the same person. I help out my friends and community before I am even asked, and I am more involved in the community (rather than focusing only on church). And I still go back to the old church and help them with some outreach projects. I think I have reach a fair balance.
Your feeling is wrong. All I'm saying is that I was motivated to do more, just out of a desire to do things and not from an external need to check things off on a list of things-to-do, than I am now. It has nothing to do with theology. It has to do with peer pressure. My Methodist church with 80 active members and an annual budget of $306k did more in the community than my new church with 600 active members and a monthly budget of well over $100k.
Your feeling is wrong. All I'm saying is that I was motivated to do more, just out of a desire to do things and not from an external need to check things off on a list of things-to-do, than I am now. It has nothing to do with theology. It has to do with peer pressure. My Methodist church with 80 active members and an annual budget of $306k did more in the community than my new church with 600 active members and a monthly budget of well over $100k.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?