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I can see why you would want to pretend to know what I really think, because what you know and I challenged you have no answer for from scripture. I have answered from scripture and always use them to support my convictions, so no, Eph 2:8-9 are clear as to what saving faith is and from where it comes, "for by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourself, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast".
i agree, faith is the gift of God.
Who does he give this gift to?
answer: only his elect that He chose to save from before the foundation of the world.
Why do you think anyone at all believes in Christ?
Lets look at the gender of some of the nouns and the demonstrative pronoun in this verse:I can see why you would want to pretend to know what I really think, because what you know and I challenged you have no answer for from scripture. I have answered from scripture and always use them to support my convictions, so no, Eph 2:8-9 are clear as to what saving faith is and from where it comes, "for by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourself, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast".
Lets look at the gender of some of the nouns and the demonstrative pronoun in this verse:For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God (Eph. 2:8 ESV).
So it is very clear in Greek that touto, neuter, cannot refer back to the feminine nouns charis and pistis. If the demonstrative this/that was meant to refer to grace or faith, there is a perfectly good Greek way of expressing this. The demonstrative would be the feminine, taute.
- The noun, grace - charis - is feminine gender;
- The noun, faith pistis is feminine gender;
- The demonstrative pronoun, this/that touto is neuter gender.
To what does this/that refer if it is not to grace or faith? Verse 8 tells us that it is the gift of God, thus referring to salvation by grace through faith.
Oz
Because it was you who stated,Ok, I would agree, but why are you telling me this?
To what does 'that' refer in Eph 2:8-9?I can see why you would want to pretend to know what I really think, because what you know and I challenged you have no answer for from scripture. I have answered from scripture and always use them to support my convictions, so no, Eph 2:8-9 are clear as to what saving faith is and from where it comes, "for by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourself, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast".
So simply by quoting a verse you read into what I was thinking or implied, that's pretty good, but doesn't express what I think as to its application. And in the post you reference, I was answering the one that I addressed in the post because he had stated that the person makes no input as to their salvation. I say that every person must by faith confess the Lord Jesus as their Savior according to the teachings of scripture, like Rom 10:9-10 for instance. But to answer your question,that would mean that it is by grace through faith and not by the person's works that would save them.Because it was you who stated,
To what does 'that' refer in Eph 2:8-9?
Oz
Because it was you who stated,
To what does 'that' refer in Eph 2:8-9?
Oz
Yes God draws all,without God we can do nothing. We also have to stay in Christ or Christ will reject us and we will be cut off.
Yes God draws all,without God we can do nothing. We also have to stay in Christ or Christ will reject us and we will be cut off.
Thank you. 'That' in Eph 2:8-9 refers to salvation.The collective phrase: "By grace are you saved through faith"
The whole process of an unbeliever becoming a believer is God's doing, God's gift, so that we cannot take credit for any of it.
Acts 16:31 disagrees as it issues a command that requires a human response: '[You] Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household'.We are not saved by the will, we are saved by grace.
The reason that there's any believers at all is not due to the fact that some people are just better than others, but because of God's grace and purpose of election.
Can Christ reject those that the Father has drawn?
Yes God draws all,without God we can do nothing. We also have to stay in Christ or Christ will reject us and we will be cut off.
God the Father 'draws' us, and all whom are thus drawnYes God draws all,without God we can do nothing. We also have to stay in Christ or Christ will reject us and we will be cut off.
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