• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Status
Not open for further replies.

DiscipleOfIAm

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2004
850
72
Indiana
Visit site
✟16,362.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Alright, I have had questions about Calvinists and Non-Calvinists stemming from another post. What is it? How are they different? What makes the difference?

Any clear definition would be great, too. Try it as though you were speaking to your kids when trying to explain. I'm a little slow on this subject.

God Bless
 

C.I. Scofield

Active Member
Nov 13, 2004
120
8
53
Lincoln Park, Michigan
✟290.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
First Calvinism:

and Now Arminianism:

More info on this can be found....:

Calvinism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism

and

Arminianism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism

Hope this Helps!

CIS
 
Upvote 0

Crazy Liz

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2003
17,090
1,106
California
✟23,305.00
Faith
Christian
DiscipleOfIAm said:
Any clear definition would be great, too. Try it as though you were speaking to your kids when trying to explain. I'm a little slow on this subject.

CIS has posted some pretty concise definitions, so I'll just try to simplify as much as possible the most basic difference. Arminians believe humans have free will, and can choose to come to God or not. Calvinists believe all humans are predestined, either to heaven or hell. Many Calvinists do not believe in double predestination - God only predestines the Elect, not the non-elect, who go to hell. I've never understood the mental gymnastics that deny both free will and double predestination, unless one accepts universalism (all will eventually be saved).

Anyway, the basic difference is predestination vs. free will.

BTW, Calvinism and Arminianism are both constructs of Reformed theology and Reformed soteriology. There are other Christian views on free will and predestination besides these.
 
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
10,049
1,801
60
New England
✟615,844.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Good Day, DiscipleOfIam

Have you read any work by a Baptist on this issue ie Spurgeon?

http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm

The basics is this IMO. One who hold to the Doctrines of grace "Calvinism" Believe that Jesus died on the cross for a known group of people "elect".

They are his Sheep, the ones given to the Son by the Father, those who are drawn by the Father, those who where chosen in Him, those who were ordained to eternal life, the predestined ones according to the Father's good pleasure, His people, the ones Jesus obtained enternal life for, the ones God works belif in... ect...


It is all about what God whats and wills to happen, some think that Jesus died for all or for those who of there own chose would believe in him. if that were the case then there remains some major problem with the will and power of God.

By the way Calvism does not say that man does not have a free will, if you search for Augustine work on that issue you will gleen some historical insights to that issue.

Peace to u,

Bill
 
Reactions: theseed
Upvote 0

theseed

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 25, 2003
6,026
132
Clarksville, TN
Visit site
✟53,288.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That's an interesting question. How would/do you explain Calvinist theology to your kids? I would probably not lecture my own kids on the finer points of theology--at least not until they got older.
 
Upvote 0

Crazy Liz

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2003
17,090
1,106
California
✟23,305.00
Faith
Christian
ps139 said:
What are the other views called Liz? Is one called Molinism? This area of theology is all a mystery to me.
No. Molinism is a theory about God's foreknowledge, but does not include a theory of soteriology. Because Calvinism posits that God not only knows everything that will happen in the future, but actually dictates every detail, it would disagree with Molinism, which is one theory that attempts to explain how God might not control every detail of the future.

Since open theism can't be discussed in CO forums, I choose not to discuss any issues of God's foreknowledge here. Post in LT with links from here and from GT, and you'll probably be able to get a good idea of different views of divine foreknowledge. Erwin wants open theism discussed in UT, but most members who hold or sympathize with that view refuse to post in UT.
 
Upvote 0

Crazy Liz

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2003
17,090
1,106
California
✟23,305.00
Faith
Christian
ps139 said:
What are the other views called Liz? Is one called Molinism? This area of theology is all a mystery to me.

I'm not sure whether they all have names that describe them in categorically equivalent terms. Calvinism and Arminianism are opposing views within the Reformed framework. Lutherans, Catholics, Anglicans and Orthodox Christians don't seem to ask exactly the same questions, so they have not defined the same types of categories to simultaneously explain God's foreknowledge, God's sovereignty and the mechanics of salvation.

BTW, "The Doctrines of Grace" is another phrase that means Calvinism. It is basically a code phrase because it is understood by Calvinists to have a technical meaning (TULIP), but non-Calvinists do not necessarily understand how it is used in this technical sense.
 
Reactions: Glisten
Upvote 0

theseed

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 25, 2003
6,026
132
Clarksville, TN
Visit site
✟53,288.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
ps139 said:
What are the other views called Liz? Is one called Molinism? This area of theology is all a mystery to me.
I got in a discussion once with thereslittleflower(I think), and she made a good case for the Roman Catholic position of sacraments, but it was based the premise that we can resist God's prevenient grace. She might have had me convinced that infant baptism is necessary for the sanctifying grace. I kept it secret from her that I was a Calvinist, when she found it, then she stopped. Very interesting discussion indeed.
 
Upvote 0

BT

Fanatic
Jan 29, 2003
2,320
221
51
Canada
Visit site
✟3,880.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I don't think that there is much difference between (some of) Catholic theology and (some of) Calvinist theology. Most of Calvins writings were derived from Augustine who is considered (by some) the "father of Roman Catholicism", and coming from a reformer it's not a big surprise (since the reformers weren't breaking away from the RCC but rather wanting to reform it "fix it" and stick with it). That's why we see a lot of Catholicish (yay I made up a word!) concepts in Luther's (and others') writings. Which is yet another reason that I hold to the definition of myself as a non-Catholic and not a protestant...

Anyway, there are (as Liz noted) other branches of theological thought aside from Calvinism and Arminianism. Speaking soteriologically (doctrine of salvation), that is. There was a major thrust from the "church fathers" on the doctrines of salvation in case you've never noticed. This should come as no great surprise, since, if you're going to learn about theology the first and utmost important subject matter is figuring out how to be saved. The rest (as the dog from Bugs Bunny says) is gravy...
 
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
10,049
1,801
60
New England
✟615,844.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Good Day, BT

Hope things are well with you and yours! I would be interested in some of the things you see as the same? Do you think that Augustine is true a representation of the current state of the Roman Church, on what basis of his writings do come to that conclusion?

Peace to u,

Bill
 
Upvote 0

theseed

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 25, 2003
6,026
132
Clarksville, TN
Visit site
✟53,288.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yeah, I must say, that most RC's would disagree strongly with you, and they would say that St. Augustine is misunderstood.
 
Upvote 0

ps139

Ab omni malo, libera nos, Domine!
Sep 23, 2003
15,088
818
New Jersey
Visit site
✟45,407.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Yah, I have noticed that the Thomists (Thomist comes from Thomas Aquinas) and Calvinists are more similar that I'd originally thought. There are a few things Calvinists accept and Thomists reject, but they do not seem to me as different as you might think. I'm I'm not mistaken though Calvin and Luther disagreed on a lot of issues, even though they both used Augustine as a basis, Luther seems more "Catholic." (LOL I never thought I'd say that!).
 
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
10,049
1,801
60
New England
✟615,844.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Good Day, Ps139

Can I copy this to my HDD for future use ??

Peace to u,

Bill
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.