Calvinism - originated in the Quran?

[john14_20]

Hi folks

What do you all think of the belief that the Quran teaches Calvin's/Augustine's pre-destination?

If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word from Me will come true, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together."---- 32:13

If Allah so willed He could make you all one people: but He leaves straying whom He pleases and He guides whom He pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions.---- 16:93

Is he then to whom the evil of his conduct is made alluring so that he looks upon it as good (equal to one who is rightly guided)? For Allah leaves to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. So let not thy soul go out in (vainly) sighing after them: for Allah knows well all that they do!---- 35:8



Blessings to all, Pete

 

[cygnusx1]

You know , Atheists sometimes pray , must be because they started it .......... who would have thought ........

 

[john14_20]

You know , Atheists sometimes pray , must be because they started it .......... who would have thought ........

Prayer is common to all religions. The link is tenuous at best.

I guess in the event of having an actual answer you might as well try and turn it into a joke.

The question is a serious one.

Blessings to all, Pete

 

[cygnusx1]

Prayer is common to all religions. The link is tenuous at best.

I guess in the event of having an actual answer you might as well try and turn it into a joke.

The question is a serious one.

Blessings to all, Pete

it is a joke !

But if you want a serious answer I am sure you will find someone who will go through the History with you ..........

 

[john14_20]

it is a joke !

But if you want a serious answer I am sure you will find someone who will go through the History with you ..........

Ok, let's hear from someone else.

Cygnus thinks it's all a big joke.

The doctrine of God electing some to be with Him and forgetting about the rest is clearly taught in the Muslim sacred writings.

I personally fail to see the comedy

Cygyy wants to avoid it and that is his perogative, but let's hear from someone who realises the importance of the issue.

If there is a historical response, I would like to know it.

Don't just tell me there is one - tell me what it is.

 

[john14_20]

Perhaps the Muslims flogged the idea off Augustine?

 

[BBAS 64]

Ok, let's hear from someone else.

Cygnus thinks it's all a big joke.

The doctrine of God electing some to be with Him and forgetting about the rest is clearly taught in the Muslim sacred writings.

I personally fail to see the comedy

Cygyy wants to avoid it and that is his perogative, but let's hear from someone who realises the importance of the issue.

If there is a historical response, I would like to know it.

Don't just tell me there is one - tell me what it is.

Good Day, John

Lets see historic.... when was the quran written? What about Augustine when did he die, when was his writtings on the subject of predestination written? How about Paul when was Romans written or Ephesians? What about John?

Joh 5:21 `For, as the Father doth raise the dead, and doth make alive, so also the Son doth make alive whom he willeth;

Joh 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Romanbear]

Islam wasn't even thought of when Augustine first wrote down his thoughts that are today called Calvinism.
In Christ;
Romanbear

 

[DAllen]

I think the connection between Calvinism and Islam are sketchy at best for reasons already stated. Even if Calvin or Martin Luther got some of their ways of thinking from the Quran or visa-versa...What difference does it make? So long as their conclusions are accurately in line with Biblical teachings - who cares? Please don't take offense to this but I think this is a fruitless question.

-DAllen

 

[pachomi33]

HI you said,

Perhaps the Muslims flogged the idea off Augustine?

There is actually some truth to the idea of Augustinian Catholicism influencing Mohamed. There are a number of books out there- can't think of the names of the top of my head- that address this. I almost picked one up in my church bookstore which addresses how the religion evolved.
God Bless you

 

[john14_20]

Good Day, John

Lets see historic.... when was the quran written? What about Augustine when did he die, when was his writtings on the subject of predestination written? How about Paul when was Romans written or Ephesians? What about John?


Peace to u,

Bill

G'Day Bill

I'd take a guess and suggest that the quran was written a couple of hundred years after Augustine - that is why I proposed perhaps they borrowed it from him.

As for Paul and John, well I don't think they teach Augustinian predestination - but that's for a different thread!

Bless ya, Pete

 

[john14_20]

Islam wasn't even thought of when Augustine first wrote down his thoughts that are today called Calvinism.
In Christ;
Romanbear

You are right Romanbear

It is still interesting that they share the teaching though.

Traditionally we have been taught that all other religions are completely false.

But on this basis we would have to admit that there is some truth in Islam.

Blessings to you, Pete

 

[Organist]

They may outlaw prayer in school, until there is a test day.

 

[cygnusx1]

http://www.bloomingtonrpchurch.org/refdocpre/26.htm

This page can answer the OP , sorry I couldn't post some of it , I did try .

 

[john14_20]

http://www.bloomingtonrpchurch.org/refdocpre/26.htm

This page can answer the OP , sorry I couldn't post some of it , I did try .

Here it is for you Cygnus (the relevant section)

And yes it has answered the question perfectly.

Blessings, Pete


But whatever may be said about the doctrine of Predestination, no reasonable person will charge that the Christian doctrine is borrowed from the Mohammedan. Augustine, who is admitted by Protestants and Catholics alike to have been the outstanding man in the Christian Church at his time, and whom Protestants rate as the greatest between Paul and Luther, had taught this doctrine with great conviction more than two centuries before Mohammedanism arose; and it was aggressively taught by Christ and the apostles at the beginning of the Christian era, to say nothing of the place which it occupied in the Old Testament.

A study of the history and teachings of Mohammedanism reveals that it is made up of three parts, one of which was borrowed from the Jews, another from the Christians, and the third from the heathen Arabs. Hence a part of the system is nothing more nor less than Christianity at second hand. But would any reasonable Christian give up certain articles of his creed only because Mohammed adopted them in his? What great gaps such conduct would make in our creed can be seen when we learn that Mohammed believed in only one true God, that he utterly abolished all idol worship, that he believed in angels, a general resurrection and judgment, a heaven and hell, that he allowed both the Old and New Testaments, and recognized both Moses and Christ as prophets of God. It is small wonder, then, that elements of the Christian doctrine of Predestination were incorporated into the Mohammedan system and united with the heathen doctrine of Fatalism.

Furthermore, an historical study of this subject shows us that the Mohammedans have had their sort of Arminians as truly as we, and that the questions of Predestination and Free Will have been agitated among the Mohammedan doctors with as much heat and vehemence as ever they were in Christendom. The Turks of the sect of Omar hold the doctrine of absolute Predestination, while the Persians of the sect of Ali deny Predestination and assert Free Will with as much fervor as any Arminian.

 

[cygnusx1]

Ahhh , thanks for getting it posted ...