Calvinism, explained.

Marvin Knox · Apr 25, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
That God only calls some, not all. yet Jesus said He wants all.

I don't get it. I think it's double-talk. God and Jesus can't contridict

It's just a matter of whether or not you will believe all of the scriptures first before you question them.

Jesus would like all to come to Him. But only those the Father gives to Him will come to Him.

He's comfortable with resigning Himself to the will of the Father.

We should be as well.

If you will but believe the scriptures first and then question them - you will find the understanding forthcoming.

"To those who have, more will be given. But to those who do not have, even what they think they have will be taken away."

Faith comes first. Then comes understanding.

EmSw · Apr 25, 2016

Marvin, Marvin, were you predestined to be a lost sinner?

Thursday · Apr 26, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
You may not like this doctrine. But don't try to make it something that it isn't.

Yes, I don't like it. I accept it for what it is. It blames God when a person goes to Hell because the person was predestined by God for Hell. That's not consistent with Christianity.

tulipbee · Apr 26, 2016

Thursday said:
Yes, I don't like it. I accept it for what it is. It blames God when a person goes to Hell because the person was predestined by God for Hell. That's not consistent with Christianity.

God warned Adam but Adam disobeyed. Death resulted. Now you want to tell God you deserve more than that

Thursday · Apr 26, 2016

tulipbee said:
God warned Adam but Adam disobeyed. Death resulted. Now you want to tell God you deserve more than that

Adam disobeyed. It wasn't that God withheld grace from Adam.

Calvinism blames God when a man sins because it claims that God never offered that man sufficient grace for salvation.

tulipbee · Apr 26, 2016

Thursday said:
Adam disobeyed. It wasn't that God withheld grace from Adam.

Calvinism blames God when a man sins because it claims that God never offered that man sufficient grace for salvation.

Calvinists recognize man is responsible cause the Calvinist knows the Bible say so. Your antiCalvinist claims were from bogus sources

Thursday · Apr 26, 2016

tulipbee said:
Calvinists recognize man is responsible cause the Calvinist knows the Bible say so. Your antiCalvinist claims were from bogus sources

Oh really.

What is unconditional election?
What is irresistible grace?

tulipbee · Apr 26, 2016

Thursday said:
Oh really.

What is unconditional election?
What is irresistible grace?

That info is widely available if you like to learn. It really means God does things according to this own pleasure not yours. All you want to talk about is you you you you. Let's talk Jesus !

Thursday · Apr 26, 2016

tulipbee said:
That info is widely available if you like to learn. It really means God does things according to this own pleasure not yours. All you want to talk about is you you you you. Let's talk Jesus !

I know what they are, and they prove your previous evasions to be false.

You hold to a false doctrine that ignores the message of Jesus and the New Testament. Jesus draws all men to himself. Now we must choose to follow this free gift of grace or reject it. If we want to follow Jesus, we must pick up our cross daily.

Calvinism denies these gospel truths.

Marvin Knox · Apr 26, 2016

Thursday said:
Adam disobeyed. It wasn't that God withheld grace from Adam.

Calvinism blames God when a man sins because it claims that God never offered that man sufficient grace for salvation.

Fallen men have sufficient grace to render them accountable to God for their sins. They have sufficient grace so that they are without excuse when it comes to their rejection of Christ's work.

By the way - if you think that the Bible shows that God gives equal grace to all men, you're just not paying attention.

If you think God owes you grace - you need to take another trip down to the Jordan and identify a little closer with fallen man.

Thursday said:
It blames God when a person goes to Hell because the person was predestined by God for Hell.

Predestination does not negate the fact that men are allowed to make choices both good and bad and will be judged accordingly.

Men go to Hell because they sin against a righteous God.

Calvinists, Arminians, and Catholics alike have to face the question of why God created men knowing full well that they would go to Hell. The Bible teaches that it would have been better for those men had they never been born.

This is not a problem common only to Calvinism. If you claim that it is - you're just whistling through a graveyard.

If you rail against the "God of Calvinism" for His supposed cruelty -- you need to rail against your own God as well.

tulipbee · Apr 26, 2016

Thursday said:
I know what they are, and they prove your previous evasions to be false.

You hold to a false doctrine that ignores the message of Jesus and the New Testament. Jesus draws all men to himself. Now we must choose to follow this free gift of grace or reject it. If we want to follow Jesus, we must pick up our cross daily.

Calvinism denies these gospel truths.

Calvinism denies no one goes to hell.

Marvin Knox · Apr 26, 2016

Thursday said:
......
You hold to a false doctrine that ignores the message of Jesus and the New Testament. Jesus draws all men to himself. Now we must choose to follow this free gift of grace or reject it. If we want to follow Jesus, we must pick up our cross daily.

Calvinism denies these gospel truths.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Calvinism denies none of those gospel truths.

Thursday · Apr 26, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
You have no idea what you are talking about.

Calvinism denies none of those gospel truths.

Of course it does.

Calvinism denies that Jesus died for all men.

Calvinism denies that Jesus draws all men to himself.

Calvinism denies that each man will be judged for his actions on earth.

Calvinism denies that a man can turn away from God's grace.

Calvinism denies that a man reaps what he sows.

Marvin Knox · Apr 26, 2016

Thursday said:
Of course it does.

Calvinism denies that Jesus died for all men.

Calvinism denies that Jesus draws all men to himself.

Calvinism denies that each man will be judged for his actions on earth.

Calvinism denies that a man can turn away from God's grace.

Calvinism denies that a man reaps what he sows.

Wow!

You've expanded your list of "gospel truths" quite a bit since last we talked.

Some of this "new" list is accurate concerning 5-point Calvinism as often expounded.

Some are not.

Thursday · Apr 26, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
Wow!

You've expanded your list of "gospel truths" quite a bit since last we talked.

Some of this "new" list is accurate concerning 5-point Calvinism as often expounded.

Some are not.

Feel free to elaborate. I suppose you think you have a corner on the number of gospel truths as well!

I'm gladly you are coming around, though.

Patmos · Apr 26, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
I'm lost now.

You said before that he "taught both".

That's compatibilism.

No.

Spurgeon said he could not reconcile them (God'd Sovereignty vs Man's responsibility). That is not compatibilism, rather the opposite. Spurgeon almost used the word 'contradiction'. Ill have to check his exact words, but unreconcilable 'contradictions' (or a word close to that) is not compatibilism.

Compatibilism is a man made song and dance, trying to get around a difficulty and make something explainable that God kept a secret.

In fact, Calvin's Institutes Book 3 ( I think chapter 25), Calvin says the same thing. Calvin even exhorts the reader not to delve into this mystery - God'd Sovereignty vs Man's responsibility- though he spends several chapters following ignoring his own advice.

Marvin Knox · Apr 26, 2016

Thursday said:
Feel free to elaborate. I suppose you think you have a corner on the number of gospel truths as well!

I'm gladly you are coming around, though.

You suppose wrong.

I have commented on gospel truths which you have supplied for me in both posts.

So called "limited atonement" (as expounded by many full on Calvinists) does deny that Christ died for all men. I disagree with that notion.

"Irresistible grace" does teach that the infused grace in the life of the elect will eventually issue in the acceptance of Christ by that person. However, it does not teach that it is impossible to resist that grace quite vigorously along the way.

ToBeLoved · Apr 26, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
It's just a matter of whether or not you will believe all of the scriptures first before you question them.

Jesus would like all to come to Him. But only those the Father gives to Him will come to Him.

He's comfortable with resigning Himself to the will of the Father.

So then how can there be perfection in the Trinity if Jesus wants something different than the Father?

So then each member of the Trinity has a separate will and desires.

Patmos · Apr 26, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
...
By the way - no one teaches that people go to Hell simply because they were born. They go to Hell because they sin.

Calvin does. So do those who follow Canon of Dort or Westminter Confessions which ALL say the same thing. This has been quoted here many times. Why do you continue to ignore them?

Patmos · Apr 26, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
It makes perfect sense.

I do believe that God allows us to make choices that impact our salvation.

Neither I nor any Calvinist would say differently.

Calvin wrote: "God does not indiscriminately adopt all into the hope of salvation but gives to some what he denies to others.”
He defined predestination as “God’s eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather eternal life is foreordained for some, eternal damnation for others.”

This is what ALL Calvinist writers - From Gill, Pink to Sproul and Grudem say and write in their publications.

This is what Canon of Dort say.

This is what any Reformed confession says.

"Neither I nor any Calvinist would say differently" Then you do NOT understand Calvinism.

Calvinism, explained.

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