Calvinism, explained.

Thursday said:

He's doing a perfect job.

A man reaps what he sows, as God planned.

Your dogma doesn't fit with scripture.

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I raised some questions to get you to think. it was obviously a waste of time, as you are so influenced by your Catholic dogma, you can't do anything but lash out in hatred at those who disagree with you. Your dogma is the one that needs to be abandoned.

Thursday said:

This is what Calvinism leads to!

Reject it and follow the teachings of Jesus.

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You do not have on ounce of knowledge of Calvinism. You have demonstrated that for all to see here. You are an empty suit, fighting straw men. .

nobdysfool said:

I raised some questions to get you to think. it was obviously a waste of time, as you are so influenced by your Catholic dogma, you can't do anything but lash out in hatred at those who disagree with you. Your dogma is the one that needs to be abandoned.

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Hatred?

I used scripture and proved that Calvinism is false.

God wants you to follow his will. If you don't, there will be consequences.

Don't count on some cosmic lottery to save you.

Thursday said:

Hatred?

I used scripture and proved that Calvinism is false.

God wants you to follow his will. If you don't, there will be consequences.

Don't count on some cosmic lottery to save you.

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Once again, you demonstrate your utter lack of even the most rudimentary points of Calvinism. Lottery? No, that is a red herring and a straw man. it's a stupid shot at those with whom you disagree. and yes, there is hatred there, because you just cannot abide people having different opinions and beliefs. Much like the Catholic church of the Middle Ages, you would force us to believe, or be burned at the stake. And yet you oppose any idea that God would force someone to believe. You aren't even consistent with your own Church.

nobdysfool said:

Once again, you demonstrate your utter lack of even the most rudimentary points of Calvinism. Lottery?

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According to you, what does a man do to go to heaven?

Thursday said:

This is what Calvinism leads to!

Reject it and follow the teachings of Jesus.

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Forget call those denominations and focus! Focus!
It is God that does the saving, not you so you can't boast.
If you boast then you're saying God doesn't save.
Focus and stop boasting!

Thursday said:

According to you, what does a man do to go to heaven?

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To be granted heaven, a man must believe on Jesus Christ, and walk with Him by the power of the Holy Spirit. And he cannot do that except by God's Grace. God must first open the man's eyes and heart before he will believe.

tulipbee said:

Forget call those denominations and focus! Focus!
It is God that does the saving, not you so you can't boast.
If you boast then you're saying God doesn't save.
Focus and stop boasting!

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I'm not boasting, I'm teaching scripture.

According to scripture, what must a man do to be saved?

nobdysfool said:

To be granted heaven, a man must believe on Jesus Christ, and walk with Him by the power of the Holy Spirit. And he cannot do that except by God's Grace. God must first open the man's eyes and heart before he will believe.

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God's grace reaches out to all men according to scripture. Jesus draws all men to himself.

Does this mean they will all be saved?

No, those who follow God's will by cooperating with his grace are going to be saved.

A man reaps what he sows.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Thursday said:

God's grace reaches out to all men according to scripture. Jesus draws all men to himself.

Does this mean they will all be saved?

No, those who follow God's will by cooperating with his grace are going to be saved.

A man reaps what he sows.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

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If you take Titus 2 as a whole and in context with the rest of Titus, we first see that Paul is writing to other believers...context matters, and after context, it must be reconciled with all the other passages that speak of predestination, foreknowledge and election.

Faith without works is dead, sure, because without faith, there are no works. Faith is a gift from God as Paul tell us in Ephesians 2:8,9 (which has been posted before in this thread):
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that (faith) not of yourselves, it (faith) is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast...."

Your understanding of scripture attempts to invalidate the words of Paul, especially when we go further within Ephesians 2:
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

Sever yourself from your bad doctrine and understand that your salvation is ENTIRELY dependent upon the Lord God.

And I pray that you will come to feel the deep gratitude for the unmerited grace that He has bestowed upon His people.

The Holy Spirit will have to guide you further because I cannot.

God bless.

supersoldier71 said:

Your understanding of scripture attempts to invalidate the words of Paul, especially when we go further within Ephesians 2:
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

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Also, God wants all men to be saved.

Just because God prepared us for something doesn't mean that we will follow his will.

He prepared the Garden of Eden for Adam and Eve. That didn't work out so well for them.

We are created to be one with God, but not all men choose that path.

This is their fault, not God's fault as the Calvinists claim.

Thursday said:

Also, God wants all men to be saved.

Just because God prepared us for something doesn't mean that we will follow his will.

He prepared the Garden of Eden for Adam and Eve. That didn't work out so well for them.

We are created to be one with God, but not all men choose that path.

This is their fault, not God's fault as the Calvinists claim.

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Wow! Is there a fire sale on straw-man arguments?

It is a logical fallacy to argue against a position that your "opponent" doesn't hold. And how can I or anyone else in this discussion be your opponent when we shouldn't be struggling against each other at all.

Reformed Protestants DO NOT think of anything as God's "fault".

His plan, for sure.

Clearly He knew that Adam and Eve would sin before He created them, correct?

Clearly He had ordained the Redemptive path before they sinned.

So clearly the Cross could NOT have been "plan B".

Every aspect of this plan belongs to God. The only things you and I bring is our sin.

You cannot possibly believe you have anything to offer God that He needs.

If He needed something, He wouldn't be God.

supersoldier71 said:

@EmSw

I submit to you Ephesians 1:4-14:

"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory."

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You were chosen to be holy and blameless in His sight. Have you reached that pinnacle? Whose fault is it that you haven't reached it yet? Is God's hand so short that He can't do that? Have you done anything to reach that pinnacle? How will you reach that pinnacle if you do nothing? If you do nothing, you will stay in your sins and be a servant to sin. A servant to sin will never be holy and blameless. So, you were chosen to do something.

We read in Ephesians 4, what we need to do to obtain holiness and blamelessness. Let's not stop at chapter one, thinking this is the total picture.

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

First, we should no longer walk in the futility of our mind. For this darkens our understanding, and alienates us from the life of God. This also causes blindness of our hearts, and we give ourselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness and greed. Until a man does no longer walks in the futility of his mind, he is alienated from the life of God.

Second, we have not learned Christ to live this way, that is, if you have heard Him and taught by Him.

Third, the truth in Jesus is that we put off the old man, which is our former way of life. The old man grows corrupt by its deceitful lusts.

Fourth, we need to be renewed in the spirit of our minds.

Fifth, we should put on the new man, which was created by God in true righteousness and holiness. These are the things we are predestined to do.

From this we see how a man obtains holiness and blamelessness. Just believing will not bring these things to pass. Man must put off the old man and put on the new man, or he walks in darkness and is ALIENATED FROM THE LIFE OF GOD. I ask, how many people who are alienated from the life of God possess eternal life?

In conclusion, if you do nothing for your salvation (that is, put off the old man), you will stay alienated from the life of God. If you do nothing (that is, put on the new man), you will not reach righteousness and holiness, for which you were predestined. Putting off the old man, and putting on the new man is the God's plan for all of us.

supersoldier71 said:

The Cross was not plan B. Our Heavenly Father, who is timeless, has had the entire plan worked out from eternity past, to include who He has chosen. What you and I aren't directly privy to is who He has chosen. So what do we do about that?

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You put off the old man and put on the new man.

supersoldier71 said:

Ask yourself: "Do I love God?"

"We love Him because He first loved us." 1 John 4:19

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I love God by keeping His commandments.

supersoldier71 said:

Reformed Protestants DO NOT think of anything as God's "fault".

.

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Perhaps you personally don't hold to a truly Calvinistic view.

Here's what the Westminster Confession says, and it makes my point for me:

The Westminster Confession of Faith states, "God has predestined and foreordained some men and angels to everlasting life out of His free grace and love without any foresight of faith or works in man or perseverance in either of them, and others are foreordained to everlasting death and the number of either is so certain and definite that it cannot be increased or diminished." (Chap. III, art. 3,4 &5; Chap. X, art. 2)


If this is your dogma, then clearly it is God's fault that a man goes to Hell.

Thursday said:

I'm not boasting, I'm teaching scripture.

According to scripture, what must a man do to be saved?

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No! You may not boast!

tulipbee said:

No! You may not boast!

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Good!

What must a man do to be saved according to scripture?

Thursday said:

Good!

What must a man do to be saved according to scripture?

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You don't get fire insurance

tulipbee said:

You don't get fire insurance

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How about this? Is this something?

Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

and this:

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

tulipbee said:

No! You may not boast!

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I haven't heard any boasting. Why would you want to accuse Thursday of that?

Thursday said:

How about this? Is this something?

Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

and this:

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

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It's exactly what it said. You have a perception of what it means by semi pelagians hectics. You didn't bother reading the Bible for yourself