Calvinism... Discussion of Doctrine?

rnmomof7 · Jul 16, 2003

nyj said:
Don't make this a Catholic vs Protestant issue, because the original poster, Silver Surfer, is not Catholic.

I was not making it a Protestant/Catholic issue. You see Calvinists believe that Arminians are not protestants . So I was actually addressing that

nyj · Jul 16, 2003

rnmomof7 said:
I was not making it a Protestant/Catholic issue. You see Calvinists believe that Arminians are not protestants . So I was actually addressing that.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification, I was unaware of that.

Gabriel · Jul 16, 2003

I received a report concerning this forum. IMO the reporter is being more offensive than the reportee. And that is coming from a Reformed Protestant Moderator.

This is just ridiculous. The fighting and whining that goes on on this message board makes me sick. Some of you (Prots. specifically) just aren't happy unless you are attacking a Catholic.

I potsed this in the staff forums. I think I'll share it:

The problem that I see with CF is Catholic bashing by Protestants and Protestants whining when they are called on the rule breaking. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. And please forgive me brothers and sisters, as a Reformed believer I take issue with much of Catholic doctrine as well as many Protestant denoms doctrine. However, I agree on this; We all meet, by His grace, at the foot of the cross and become family. And I will not tolerate attacks on ppl in the forums I have leadership over. I have suspended Catholics and Protestants alike for it and I will continue. I am biased in my moderating. Biased against trolls. There are more warnings and editing of Protestant posts because Protestants are breaking the rules more. That's not CF's fault. It's called personal responsibility. People need to learn it.

rnmomof7 · Jul 16, 2003

To All,

I think we all need to take a deep breath and look at this objectively . I sometimes have a hard time figuring out what forum i am on and end up disputing a point on a forum I should not. One one occasion a monitor just explained the rules and I left . I felt bad that I had gone where I should not.

We are all sinful humans and boy do we evidence that sometimes.

There are other solutions. Perhaps this thread could be moved to allow for a debate. That would seem a peace solution (as funny as that sounds)

nyj · Jul 16, 2003

Well, if it will help ease the tension (and even if it won't), I will gladly apologize. It was not my intention to pick a fight, nor was it my intention to belittle my non-Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ. If my actions seemed overtly hostile and demeaning, I'm sorry, it was not my intention.

PS: For the record, I'm not saying this because I'm afraid Erwin or someone else is going to get on my case. I'm aware of what I said, and if I stepped over the line and I'm in the wrong, I have no problem accepting full responsibility for my actions.

rnmomof7 · Jul 16, 2003

nyj said:
Gotcha, thanks for the clarification, I was unaware of that.

Thats OK . As you can imagine that does not make most Arminians happy:>)

But we take the term "protestants " to be descriptive of the churches that came directly from the reformation.

The Arminians were actually in a way protesting the reformers not the Catholic church.

We would just consider them in the broad description of Christian brothers.

Knight · Jul 16, 2003

In a vain attempt to get this discussion back on the original topic:

I believe that this was originally intended to discuss the merits of calvinism.

What are your views on either side of this issue? Please back up your claims with scripture.

The accusation has been made that calvinism is not Biblical. Where is the evedince to support this claim?

(This can be done without degenerating into a Protestant-Catholic debate. Let's be adults here.)

Benedicta00 · Jul 16, 2003

rnmomof7 said:
Why did they affirm it at the 2nd Vatican council?

Have you ever read it? Might be worth a read to see it was not aimed at people but a doctrines that most Protestants affirm yet

Yes I have read it an I can not find the place where non Catholics, whether they be non Christian or Protestant are ****** to hell.

Benedicta00 · Jul 16, 2003

nyj said:
Well, if it will help ease the tension (and even if it won't), I will gladly apologize. It was not my intention to pick a fight, nor was it my intention to belittle my non-Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ. If my actions seemed overtly hostile and demeaning, I'm sorry, it was not my intention.

PS: For the record, I'm not saying this because I'm afraid Erwin or someone else is going to get on my case. I'm aware of what I said, and if I stepped over the line and I'm in the wrong, I have no problem accepting full responsibility for my actions.

NYJ:

You did not step over the line. If Protestants do not want us in here then they should not misrepresent our faith.

My feeling is that some, of course not all but some feel that we do not belong on the forum period or that we should just stay in the Catholic section. I don't care either way, but I will defend a myth or lie or a slanderous remark whenever and where ever I see it.

tulc · Jul 16, 2003

Well in the spirit of reconciliation I'll jump in here and say: The Silver Surfer wasn't really that whiney!
tulc(who felt bad about attacking a comicbook character like that)

Silver Surfer · Jul 16, 2003

Ah, but with God ...all things are possible ?

Does God have the power to change men's lives into something better than what they first began as ?

Knight · Jul 16, 2003

Silver Surfer said:
Ah, but with God ...all things are possible ?

Does God have the power to change men's lives into something better than what they first began as ?

Would you care to explain what is meant by this?

Silver Surfer · Jul 16, 2003

I merely am giving the 3 angels messages of Revelation 14:6-12.
Calling people out of Babylon (false teaching) is just one of the several messages contained in Rev. 14.

One of the tenets of Calvinism is the false concept of eternally burning hell-fire, wherein people are totured for all eternity.
This is a Satanic doctrine and must be exposed, as it is a false idea concerning the love of God.

Knight · Jul 16, 2003

Not to turn this into a debate about end times, but.......

What do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die?

CCWoody · Jul 16, 2003

Miss Shelby said:
Greeter,

All he was doing was addressing Woody's failure to post the whole quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia, which, in my opinion, makes Woody look a little less than honest.

NYJ is the one who changed the title of the thread from 'Calvinism Satan's own doctrine' to a more suitable one. Why is it so easy to focus on what you perceive as negative and not the positive?

Michelle

Again, we have a direct Ad Hominem against me by the Catholics on this board. I clearly identified my source cite so that all interested partys could go and look at the context. If that makes me look less than honest, so be it.

Instead of addressing my specific complaint here, the Catholics have:

Claimed that I have my definition of anathema wrong.
Resorted to personal attacks against my person.

FWIW, if anyone cares for an honest discussion about my complaint, I will again state it in brief:

The Council of Trent, reaffirmed by V2 states that due to my doctrine, I am anathema. The exact word used is if ANYONE believes these things let him be anathema, acursed. Several Catholics have maintained that this does not apply to Protestants today. I have asked for an official declaration to that fact, but have been met instead with various sidestepping arguments. In my attempts to address these and redirect the discussion back to the original point of contention, I have now multiple times been subject to Ad Hominem attacks.

Personally, I could care less. The thoughtful readers will be able to sort these things out and figure out what is really going on here.

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.

CCWoody · Jul 16, 2003

nyj said:
I made one post correcting Woody's comments that the Catholic Church unequivocally damns non-Catholics to hell.

This is bad form at best. I never made any such claim. In fact, I specifically made references which can only be characterized as narrowing my comments to one specific example, which you specifically note in your reply (of which I only cite the relevant part).

Please make an attempt to honestly reflect what I say.

I will continue to wait for your official declaration that the anyone who denies the "Real Presence" in the Eucharist really doesn't mean anyone, but only a specific group of people.

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.

Miss Shelby · Jul 16, 2003

What I said is that you appear less than honest since you conveniently decided not to include the ENTIRE quote from the CE in your post? You cite it, but you give no link making it harder for people to check it out themselves...and my guess is that many people will just read what you wrote INSTEAD of going straight to the source.

Personally, I could care less as well. The entirety of quote totally changes the perspective and the meaning, AND Catholics have told you that what was said at Trent does not apply to Protestants who have been protestants all of their lives, but to the original Reformers who broke away from the Church. If that isn't enough... so be it.

Michelle

rnmomof7 · Jul 16, 2003

Silver Surfer said:
I merely am giving the 3 angels messages of Revelation 14:6-12.
Calling people out of Babylon (false teaching) is just one of the several messages contained in Rev. 14.

One of the tenets of Calvinism is the false concept of eternally burning hell-fire, wherein people are totured for all eternity.
This is a Satanic doctrine and must be exposed, as it is a false idea concerning the love of God.

So does this mean that you do not believe in Hell/and or eternal damnation?

Jesus spoke more of hell than heaven

*
Mar 9:43**
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

**
*
Mar 9:44**
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

**
*
Mar 9:45**
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

**
*
Mar 9:46**
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

**
*
Mar 9:47**
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

**
*
Mar 9:48**
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

**
*
Mar 9:49**
For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Sounds like eternal damnation to me

CCWoody · Jul 16, 2003

Silver Surfer said:
I merely am giving the 3 angels messages of Revelation 14:6-12.
Calling people out of Babylon (false teaching) is just one of the several messages contained in Rev. 14.

One of the tenets of Calvinism is the false concept of eternally burning hell-fire, wherein people are totured for all eternity.
This is a Satanic doctrine and must be exposed, as it is a false idea concerning the love of God.

No, this is one of the Tenets of Christendom everywhere. This is not a Calvinist invention of the last 500 years as you seem to suggest.

So, as you seem to be exposing yourself as something other than a Christian, I will again ask that you provide all of us with your denomination and a statement of your beliefs.

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.

CCWoody · Jul 16, 2003

Miss Shelby said:
What I said is that you appear less than honest since you conveniently decided not to include the ENTIRE quote from the CE in your post? You cite it, but you give no link making it harder for people to check it out themselves...and my guess is that many people will just read what you wrote INSTEAD of going straight to the source.

Personally, I could care less as well. The entirety of quote totally changes the perspective and the meaning, AND Catholics have told you that what was said at Trent does not apply to Protestants who have been protestants all of their lives, but to the original Reformers who broke away from the Church. If that isn't enough... so be it.

Michelle

No, to be honest it isn't enough. The Catholic church claims for itself the ability to bind and loose upon heaven and earth. This is not individual Catholics. Unless you can provide official documentation that anyone really doesn't mean anyone I see no reason to believe that your opinion is anything other than your own personal opinion.

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.

Calvinism... Discussion of Doctrine?

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