Calvinism and the non-elect

[liesje]

Before I ask my question, I'll just say that I am a Calvinist and I go to a Reformed Church. Reading through some of these threads confused me a bit and brought this question up. Please forgive me if it's a silly question

Is it possible for a non-elect person to be saved?

 

[mlqurgw]

Before I ask my question, I'll just say that I am a Calvinist and I go to a Reformed Church. Reading through some of these threads confused me a bit and brought this question up. Please forgive me if it's a silly question

Is it possible for a non-elect person to be saved?

No it isn't. But that is not because thery are non-elect. It is because they will not come to Christ. Election doesn't keep out any who truly desire salvation. Election isn't a negative but a positive. None would be saved if God had not chosen to be gracious and mercifiul to some. Man hates God by nature and refuses to bow to Him. He is dead in trespsses and sin and not only will not come but cannot come. There are those whom God leaves to themselves and their own wills. Those He graciously chose in Christ before the foundation of the world He brings to life and faith in Christ by the preaching of the Gospel.

The only silly question is the one you didn't ask. There are no silly questions.

 

[JesusFreak78]

Subscribes to thread!

 

[Shulamite]

No it isn't. But that is not because thery are non-elect. It is because they will not come to Christ. Election doesn't keep out any who truly desire salvation. Election isn't a negative but a positive. None would be saved if God had not chosen to be gracious and mercifiul to some. Man hates God by nature and refuses to bow to Him. He is dead in trespsses and sin and not only will not come but cannot come. There are those whom God leaves to themselves and their own wills. Those He graciously chose in Christ before the foundation of the world He brings to life and faith in Christ by the preaching of the Gospel.

The only silly question is the one you didn't ask. There are no silly questions.

yes....

 

[liesje]

No it isn't. But that is not because thery are non-elect. It is because they will not come to Christ. Election doesn't keep out any who truly desire salvation. Election isn't a negative but a positive. None would be saved if God had not chosen to be gracious and mercifiul to some. Man hates God by nature and refuses to bow to Him. He is dead in trespsses and sin and not only will not come but cannot come. There are those whom God leaves to themselves and their own wills. Those He graciously chose in Christ before the foundation of the world He brings to life and faith in Christ by the preaching of the Gospel.

The only silly question is the one you didn't ask. There are no silly questions.

Thank you

It's hard to swallow sometimes isn't it? I always struggle with this one, because I don't want it to be true, but at the same time I know it has to be true, because otherwise God isn't sovereign. And it's quite obvious in the Bible that God does choose. I suppose if God didn't choose, and we're all dead in sin, then no one at all would come to him. :o

 

[Shulamite]

Thank you

It's hard to swallow sometimes isn't it? I always struggle with this one, because I don't want it to be true, but at the same time I know it has to be true, because otherwise God isn't sovereign. And it's quite obvious in the Bible that God does choose. I suppose if God didn't choose, and we're all dead in sin, then no one at all would come to him. :o

Very well said and yes, very true.

 

[mlqurgw]

Thank you

It's hard to swallow sometimes isn't it? I always struggle with this one, because I don't want it to be true, but at the same time I know it has to be true, because otherwise God isn't sovereign. And it's quite obvious in the Bible that God does choose. I suppose if God didn't choose, and we're all dead in sin, then no one at all would come to him. :o

I am always encouraged by those who bow to the Word of God even when it goes against what they like. It is hard to swallow until you grasp how gracious it is for God to have chosen to save any of us. Unlike what folks say it doesn't make you full of pride it humbles you. The doctrine of election puts the sinner on his face at the feet of the Savior begging mercy. And every sinner who seek s mercy finds it. No one ever came to Christ in faith and was turned away.

 

[Shulamite]

I am always encouraged by those who bow to the Word of God even when it goes against what they like. It is hard to swallow until you grasp how gracious it is for God to have chosen to save any of us. Unlike what folks say it doesn't make you full of pride it humbles you. The doctrine of election puts the sinner on his face at the feet of the Savior begging mercy. And every sinner who seek s mercy finds it. No one ever came to Christ in faith and was turned away.

Very true. I find that people say I am "prideful and making assumptions" that I am the elect. When the Lord revealed to me that He elected me to be His and chose me IN Him, it awed me and made me humble myself into the dust. I was a lump of clay He could have formed into a vessel of wrath and He chose to mold me into a vessel of mercy. Praise the Lord.
That is humbling, not pride at all, as some assume.

 

[IntolerantSociopath]

I'm not a Calvinist, but I was raised in a 'hyper-Calvinist' family, old Dutch Reform churchers. I find that, although I am no longer any sort of Biblican Christian, I share the basic Calvinist evaluation as humans as essentially debauched and absurd and a general nihilism towards those who, for whatever reason, do not find their way out of it.

Humility, however, is not my strong point. I take a more elitist view (as, if they were honest, so did my family). It may not be your doing that you are superior, but you are superior nonetheless.

 

[AMR]

Before I ask my question, I'll just say that I am a Calvinist and I go to a Reformed Church. Reading through some of these threads confused me a bit and brought this question up. Please forgive me if it's a silly question

Is it possible for a non-elect person to be saved?

No is the only proper answer with the following understandings:

God justly tells the reprobate: "I am not going to force you to make the wrong choice, but I am also not going to prevent you from making the wrong choice."

God graciously tells the elect: "I am not going to force you to make the wrong choice. In fact, I'm going to prevent you from making the wrong choice.



AMR

 

[liesje]

No is the only proper answer with the following understandings:

God justly tells the reprobate: "I am not going to force you to make the wrong choice, but I am also not going to prevent you from making the wrong choice."

God graciously tells the elect: "I am not going to force you to make the wrong choice. In fact, I'm going to prevent you from making the wrong choice.



AMR

So that's where total depravity comes in then? The reprobate are neither forced to or prevented from making the wrong decision, but they nevertheless will all make the wrong decision?

 

[AMR]

So that's where total depravity comes in then? The reprobate are neither forced to or prevented from making the wrong decision, but they nevertheless will all make the wrong decision?

Indeed. We choose according to that which we desire the most to choose when we so choose. Those that are at enmity with God choose accordingly.

AMR

 

[simonpeter]

Just a quick question. Since we don't know whether we're the elect, do we just assume we are?

 

[IntolerantSociopath]

Just a quick question. Since we don't know whether we're the elect, do we just assume we are?

In Calvinism it's usually assumed you do know due to your direct relationship with God.

 

[kenrapoza]

Just a quick question. Since we don't know whether we're the elect, do we just assume we are?

It's funny, but the non-calvinist keeps coming back to this question, leaving the calvinist in the ironic position of pointing the questioner away from the unknowable decrees of God and back to Christ! If we are trusting in Christ alone for our salvation, then we are elect. If we are not trusting in Christ, then we need to hear the gospel and repent. God the Holy Spirit will grant the grace of regeneration through the hearing and preaching of the gospel, will seal their salvation to their conscience through baptism and sustain their faith through the regular ministry of Word and sacrament.

Christ knows who are his own, and the sheep know the voice of their shepherd. The doctrine of election is not for us to try to figure out who is in and who is out, that is completely in appropriate. It is a growth out of clear Biblical teaching and the attributes of God - ultimately it is a comfort that our salvation rests in God alone and not our own performance. He won't disown His adopted children when they mess up. God will preseve us because He has first chosen us since before the foundation of the world.

 

[IntolerantSociopath]

Yeah, more or less what Kenrapoza said. Among my kin it was also assumed that you would receive (Earthly) blessings as one of the elect, and that these could be taken as a sign (though not a definitive one) of being elect.

 

[Vico]

Will hell be bigger than heaven? , it seems (at least in this era) that more ppl are heading to hell then heaven.

 

[AMR]

We can be assured of our election:

Struggling With Our Assurance of Salvation - Christian Forums

A very good book on the topic is Thomas Brooks' Heaven on Earth:

HEAVEN ON EARTH

AMR

 

[cygnusx1]

Just a quick question. Since we don't know whether we're the elect, do we just assume we are?

NO ! that would be presumption . scripture commands us to find out , "make your calling and election sure " .